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  #3881 (permalink)  
Old 01-04-2014, 12:17 AM
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Our jobs are stable and we can most likely able to work until 65. Our expenses are not high as we only have a son and we don't drive.

We see our monthly mortgage payment (using CPF and cash) like forced savings and when we reach 65 and retire, we can sell the condo (after enjoying condo living for 25 years), say at $1.6m, and then buy the HDB studio unit (for old folks). This HDB studio cost only $100k. We can then retire with the $1.5m cash.
To be honest your plan puts you from an area with a safety net to one without, and also makes no financial sense what so ever. Plainly cause

1. Your income of 120K is not high but not exceedingly, if one of you loses your job you will likely struggle with the monthly repayment + MCST + Prop tax etc which is about 3K to 3.5K per month. Assuming 600K 25 years @ 2.5% (And yes interest rates have gone higher before)

2. You want to buy a 99 year leasehold (err leasehold depreciates over time) for 1.2 Million and sell it 25 years later for 1.6M. How did you arrive at this figure? I have a freehold condo worth 1.1 M now West of SG, by that logic in 25 years it should be worth 2.5 Million and a small Condo in orchard would be 10 Million etc. No offence the figures you proposes are kind of washy and no one predicts 25 years in the future. (even the SG govt does dare not to commit)

Imagine if you sell your HDB now at CUV (Cash under valuation) buy a 1.2 M condo, market slumps (now worh 900K) and 25 years later worth 1 Million (Though I suspect less). How would that impact your future plans?

I am long term property investor and I can say your "forced savings plans" and future valuation figures are non too realistic. I would advise you to speak to your friends who are investment savvy in property.

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  #3882 (permalink)  
Old 01-04-2014, 07:59 AM
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Thanks for taking the time to write your comments.

I think our combined income of $120k pa is high enough to service a loan of $600k comfortably, even though rates may go up to 3%. If I lose my job, then that's a different matter altogether and I may need to downgrade to a 3 room HDB flat. But, like I said, our jobs are stable, trust me. We will only lose our job if we are paralysed.

About your point of depreciation, by the same logic, my 15 years old flat will also depreciate over time. Now it is worth $600k, in 20 years time it could then be worth $300k and eventually zero after all the lease is up. As for the condo, even though the value may go down from $1.2m to $1m, at least I would have enjoyed luxury condo living for 25 years. I will find a condo just next to an MRT station so that its value will remain strong even after many years as there will always be a chance that the condo will go for en bloc and I will definitely get more than $1.2m.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
To be honest your plan puts you from an area with a safety net to one without, and also makes no financial sense what so ever. Plainly cause

1. Your income of 120K is not high but not exceedingly, if one of you loses your job you will likely struggle with the monthly repayment + MCST + Prop tax etc which is about 3K to 3.5K per month. Assuming 600K 25 years @ 2.5% (And yes interest rates have gone higher before)

2. You want to buy a 99 year leasehold (err leasehold depreciates over time) for 1.2 Million and sell it 25 years later for 1.6M. How did you arrive at this figure? I have a freehold condo worth 1.1 M now West of SG, by that logic in 25 years it should be worth 2.5 Million and a small Condo in orchard would be 10 Million etc. No offence the figures you proposes are kind of washy and no one predicts 25 years in the future. (even the SG govt does dare not to commit)

Imagine if you sell your HDB now at CUV (Cash under valuation) buy a 1.2 M condo, market slumps (now worh 900K) and 25 years later worth 1 Million (Though I suspect less). How would that impact your future plans?

I am long term property investor and I can say your "forced savings plans" and future valuation figures are non too realistic. I would advise you to speak to your friends who are investment savvy in property.




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  #3883 (permalink)  
Old 01-04-2014, 08:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Thanks for taking the time to write your comments.

I think our combined income of $120k pa is high enough to service a loan of $600k comfortably, even though rates may go up to 3%. If I lose my job, then that's a different matter altogether and I may need to downgrade to a 3 room HDB flat. But, like I said, our jobs are stable, trust me. We will only lose our job if we are paralysed.

About your point of depreciation, by the same logic, my 15 years old flat will also depreciate over time. Now it is worth $600k, in 20 years time it could then be worth $300k and eventually zero after all the lease is up. As for the condo, even though the value may go down from $1.2m to $1m, at least I would have enjoyed luxury condo living for 25 years. I will find a condo just next to an MRT station so that its value will remain strong even after many years as there will always be a chance that the condo will go for en bloc and I will definitely get more than $1.2m.
Your point of depreciation of HDB flats isn't really correct because number of years left on the lease isn't really factored into the 'valuation' of the house as HDB does SERS so it's almost like there's 'unlimited freehold'. I think it's a concept that exists only in Singapore. People expect and price into the market the fact that HDB will buy back the HDB units when it's old enough. So far i think the oldest flat now is not more than 40yrs (i might be wrong on this)?

But this is clearly different for leasehold private property. No one is going to buy back your property unless it's enbloc and that's an entire discussion and chances are much less slim. Number of years on leasehold private property is clearly factored into the price.

Seriously if you are paying so much for a property, the least you could do is get freehold unless you are buying a brand new leasehold 99yrs old one and planning to selling within 10yrs

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  #3884 (permalink)  
Old 01-04-2014, 09:55 AM
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If what you said about HDB SERs is correct, then it means private property prices will be supported by HDB prices.

I think in buying a condo, the most important thing is location. That is why I will be looking for a condo located next to an MRT station. I am searching in the West area which is near my parents' place. I did some research and I found the Lakeside District to be very appealing. The 3 condos I will want to consider seriously are: The Lakeshore, Caspian and The Lakefront Residences. These condos are new / brand new and located near the Lakeside MRT station. The lake area will also be developed with new attractions in the coming years.

Wish me luck in selling my flat fast.


Quote:
Originally Posted by aplover View Post
Your point of depreciation of HDB flats isn't really correct because number of years left on the lease isn't really factored into the 'valuation' of the house as HDB does SERS so it's almost like there's 'unlimited freehold'. I think it's a concept that exists only in Singapore. People expect and price into the market the fact that HDB will buy back the HDB units when it's old enough. So far i think the oldest flat now is not more than 40yrs (i might be wrong on this)?

But this is clearly different for leasehold private property. No one is going to buy back your property unless it's enbloc and that's an entire discussion and chances are much less slim. Number of years on leasehold private property is clearly factored into the price.

Seriously if you are paying so much for a property, the least you could do is get freehold unless you are buying a brand new leasehold 99yrs old one and planning to selling within 10yrs
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  #3885 (permalink)  
Old 01-04-2014, 10:40 AM
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Now is a good time to upgrade. Just remember that you are buying to stay in your condo and not to speculate like property investors. You just buy and stay in it, do not be so concerned with the value. As long as you can pay your mortgage, you will be fine.

It is a good time to upgrade because your HDB flat price is already high now and will not go any higher. If you don't sell now, prices may go down and you will get less for downpayment. By selling at $600k, you are locking in your profit and use the $600k for downpayment of the condo.

If your condo costs you $1.2m and your loan is only $600k, you are actually very safe since your loan to value (LTV) ratio is only 50%. Banks actually lend 80% LTV for first property and if you meet the TDSR framework, which you do.

Go ahead, enjoy the luxury condo living lifestyle. Now is the chance for you to upgrade not only your lifestyle but your social status. Your $120k pa income is actually big if you do not drive, do not gamble, do not smoke, do not drink, do not womanize and do not sodomize.
These activities will lead to divorces, monetary losses, diseases (STDs, AIDS, heart and liver diseases, etc).


Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Hi gurus,

We need your advice regarding our plan to upgrade. My wife and I are both 40. We have a combined monthly income of $10k a month or $120k pa. We now live in a 5 room HDB flat which is fully paid up and valued at $600k.

We are thinking of selling our flat at $600k and use the cash for downpayment for a $1.2m condo. We then take a 25 years loan of $600k.

Since we both take public transport to work, we don't spend much on transport, so we feel we can afford the monthly payments of about $2400 (24% of our monthly income). We will use our CPF and cash for the monthly payments.

Is this advisable? Thank you.
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  #3886 (permalink)  
Old 01-04-2014, 11:16 AM
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Hi, sorry to hijack this thread but since it is a popular thread with many high networth posters, thought I could ask here.

I am thinking of selling my freehold landed terrace in a cityfringe location for 2 million. It has potential for appreciation as near Bidadari and Paya Lebar airbase which are about to be developed. Walking distance to upcoming MRT and Macpherson mall with shops, restaurents and NTUC supermarket. Has 3 coffeeshops and 3 clinics and Prime supermarket a short walk away. Within 1km of Maris Stella primary High school which was why we bought it.

Anyone interested? Can contact me at 97517334. Thanks...
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  #3887 (permalink)  
Old 01-04-2014, 01:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Hi gurus,

We need your advice regarding our plan to upgrade. My wife and I are both 40. We have a combined monthly income of $10k a month or $120k pa. We now live in a 5 room HDB flat which is fully paid up and valued at $600k.

We are thinking of selling our flat at $600k and use the cash for downpayment for a $1.2m condo. We then take a 25 years loan of $600k.

Since we both take public transport to work, we don't spend much on transport, so we feel we can afford the monthly payments of about $2400 (24% of our monthly income). We will use our CPF and cash for the monthly payments.

Is this advisable? Thank you.


HDB flat price falling. Better sell your flat fast. Don't be greedy. Just sell. Many people rushing to sell their HDB flat to upgrade to condo.


HDB resale prices sink 1.5% in Q1

Apr 1, 2014 - PropertyGuru.com.sg

Resale flat prices continue to fall, declining 1.5 percent in Q1 2014, according to newly released flash estimates of HDBís resale price index (RPI).

The RPI provides information on general price movements in the resale public housing market.

Prices of HDB resale flats have been on a downward trend since the second half of 2013, falling 0.9 percent in Q3 and 1.5 percent in Q4.

More detailed public housing data for the first quarter will be released on 25 April.

Going forward, HDB will offer about 3,060 Build-to-Order (BTO) flats in Bukit Batok and Woodlands in May. An additional 3,000 flats will also be offered in a concurrent Sale of Balance Flats (SBF) exercise.
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  #3888 (permalink)  
Old 01-04-2014, 01:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Hi, sorry to hijack this thread but since it is a popular thread with many high networth posters, thought I could ask here.

I am thinking of selling my freehold landed terrace in a cityfringe location for 2 million. It has potential for appreciation as near Bidadari and Paya Lebar airbase which are about to be developed. Walking distance to upcoming MRT and Macpherson mall with shops, restaurents and NTUC supermarket. Has 3 coffeeshops and 3 clinics and Prime supermarket a short walk away. Within 1km of Maris Stella primary High school which was why we bought it.

Anyone interested? Can contact me at 97517334. Thanks...

Landed property prices falling. Will prices recover? Noone can predict.

Read the article below.

" ... prices of landed homes fell for the second consecutive quarter, by 0.6 percent, after the decline of 1.0 percent previously."


Is your $2m on the high side? What's the lowest transacted price in your estate?
What's the land area and built up area?

Good luck!


Private home prices down 1.3% in Q1

Apr 1, 2014 - PropertyGuru.com.sg


Private residential property prices in Singapore fell by 1.3 percent in the first quarter of 2014, according to URA flash estimates released today.

This is higher than the 0.9 percent decline in the previous quarter.

Prices of non-landed private residential properties declined in the first quarter this year.

In the Core Central Region (CCR), prices slid 1.3 percent after decreasing 2.1 percent in the previous quarter. This is the fourth consecutive quarter of price decline in this segment, noted URA.

Prices in the Outside Central Region (OCR) dropped for the second consecutive quarter, by 0.3 percent compared to the previous 1.0 percent dip.

Over in the Rest of Central Region (RCR), prices fell 2.8 percent, compared with the 0.4 percent increase in the quarter before.

Meanwhile, prices of landed homes fell for the second consecutive quarter, by 0.6 percent, after the decline of 1.0 percent previously.

The flash estimates are compiled based on transaction prices given in caveats lodged during the first ten weeks of the quarter, supplemented by data on new units sold by developers in the first two months of the quarter.

URA will release updated figures four weeks later once more data on caveats lodged and take-up of new projects is captured.


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  #3889 (permalink)  
Old 01-04-2014, 09:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
If what you said about HDB SERs is correct, then it means private property prices will be supported by HDB prices.

I think in buying a condo, the most important thing is location. That is why I will be looking for a condo located next to an MRT station. I am searching in the West area which is near my parents' place. I did some research and I found the Lakeside District to be very appealing. The 3 condos I will want to consider seriously are: The Lakeshore, Caspian and The Lakefront Residences. These condos are new / brand new and located near the Lakeside MRT station. The lake area will also be developed with new attractions in the coming years.

Wish me luck in selling my flat fast.
You make the right choice. Read the article below on Jurong Lake. Property prices there will only go up.



SINGAPORE: Some 4,000 dragon boat and kayaking enthusiasts were at Jurong Lake over the weekend to take part in this year's PA PaddleFest.

It is a sign of things to come, as the venue could be hosting more water sports activities in the future.

Deputy Prime Minister Tharman Shanmugaratnam, who is also MP for Jurong GRC, was the guest-of-honour at the event.

There were a variety of races, including one for people with special needs and a competition that involved multi-generation families.

More events are being lined up, among them a smaller version of the PaddleFest which is slated for June this year.

Jurong Lake will be undergoing a makeover next year, as part of the URA master plan to turn the district into a business and leisure destination.

This means residents in the area can look forward to more water activities in the future.

Mr Desmond Lee, Minister of State for National Development and MP for Jurong GRC, said: "Jurong Lake will be undergoing renovations, we will be upgrading the lake. As part of that endeavour, we will move the PA Water Venture site to a more prominent location along the Jurong Lake waterfront, where there will be F&B and other facilities for residents, so that water sports can and will become part and parcel of residents' recreation and lifestyle in this area."
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  #3890 (permalink)  
Old 01-04-2014, 10:54 PM
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What is the sane level? Households earning $300K to $400K pa have found $1m property affordable. Look at the car COE. At $80k COE, people are still rushing in.

I think if you cannot afford to buy now, you will most certainly not able to afford to buy in a crisis, because you will be jobless.
Ho say liao.... property prices hitting peak and taking the turn.... time to whip out cash for those loaded people...
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