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  #4121 (permalink)  
Old 17-09-2014, 01:32 AM
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Quite accurate. Coming from the Poly, we have some similar observation too.

PAX Salary Range (effective 1 Sep 2012)

PAX 2
$10,920 - 14,910 /16,900

PAX 3
$ 7,060 - 9,670 /10,980

PAX 4A/4E
$ 5,120 - 7,690 / 8,980

AD CEP (MX11A) is the equivalent of our PAX 4 (quite close the our ceiling of $8.9). This is where most will end up and retire, as senior lecturer.

SAD/DD CEP (MX10) is the equivalent of our PAX 3 where our ceiling is about $11k. This is where the management staff are placed at usually, from managers (possible to start from Pax 4 too) onwards. At this PAX, there could be AD, DD too.

Some more fortunate DD will move on to PAX 2, equivalent to MX9. Here are the lao jiaos DD, Directors onwards.

Yup, so quite matching.


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Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
These are some patterns which I observed. Not sure if they are accurate.

Actually pace of promotions will be rather fast in your first 5-10 years in civil service. But pace of promotions will start to slow down in your 30s. A lot depends on CEP.

AD CEP (MX11A)
Default CEP for most people. Worst case plateau at MX11A (plateau at 8.5K) by mid 40s. Not difficult to upgrade to SAD/DD CEP.

SAD/DD CEP (MX10)
Majority will reach MX11A by late 30s and hit MX10 (plateau at 11K) by mid/late 40s. This is easier said than done. You need to not screw up for 20 years to achieve this. Any screw-up goes back to AD CEP.

Director CEP (MX9-level 1)
A few exceptions will reach MX10 by mid-30s (plateau at 11K) then hit MX9 (plateau at 12K) by early or mid-40s

Senior Director CEP (MX9-level 2)
Very very few people make it this far. You must have a string of AO bosses (non-AO bosses harder, usually they will be demolished by AO bosses during ranking unless super senior) who loves you to get here. The problem is AO bosses are very very demanding as well. So far only seen one chap made it. Same as director CEP. but you will cross the MX9 bar in your late 40s and plateau at 16K instead

From my observation, I think there are two or three levels of CEP for MX9.

Let me know if my observations wrong. Help me by affirming/refuting my observations.

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  #4122 (permalink)  
Old 17-09-2014, 08:39 AM
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Your observations are those who realize their CEP. Many have AD or DD CEP but don't move up for various reasons (e.g. openings available, others with same CEP etc). Just cos you have CEP doesn't mean you will reach there.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
These are some patterns which I observed. Not sure if they are accurate.

Actually pace of promotions will be rather fast in your first 5-10 years in civil service. But pace of promotions will start to slow down in your 30s. A lot depends on CEP.

AD CEP (MX11A)
Default CEP for most people. Worst case plateau at MX11A (plateau at 8.5K) by mid 40s. Not difficult to upgrade to SAD/DD CEP.

SAD/DD CEP (MX10)
Majority will reach MX11A by late 30s and hit MX10 (plateau at 11K) by mid/late 40s. This is easier said than done. You need to not screw up for 20 years to achieve this. Any screw-up goes back to AD CEP.

Director CEP (MX9-level 1)
A few exceptions will reach MX10 by mid-30s (plateau at 11K) then hit MX9 (plateau at 12K) by early or mid-40s

Senior Director CEP (MX9-level 2)
Very very few people make it this far. You must have a string of AO bosses (non-AO bosses harder, usually they will be demolished by AO bosses during ranking unless super senior) who loves you to get here. The problem is AO bosses are very very demanding as well. So far only seen one chap made it. Same as director CEP. but you will cross the MX9 bar in your late 40s and plateau at 16K instead

From my observation, I think there are two or three levels of CEP for MX9.

Let me know if my observations wrong. Help me by affirming/refuting my observations.


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  #4123 (permalink)  
Old 17-09-2014, 08:42 AM
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lol. no guarantee wor. You need to develop very strong mental resilience to survive the idiotic bureaucracy which gets worse over the years. Many, many left after 5-12 years of de-skilling. (You only know how to write papers after a while.) In my opinion, these are brave souls. They may be paid lower. But they are so much happier picking up new skills.

Those who remain are heroes in their own right - you really need a lot of mental strength to repeat almost the same things over and over again, just that for every cycle you went thr, the level of bureaucracy increases.
no doubt CS has its challenges, but my point is how come people in the CS always complain they are underpaid?

for eg, a typical mid career graduate in early 30s in a GLC would struggle to make $90k pa. the money only increases when you get to HOD level, of which there are very few positions.



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  #4124 (permalink)  
Old 17-09-2014, 09:45 AM
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In the media industry, quite a niche role, so hoping to get out asap to something more employable. I'm 25, with NS. Almost as good as a fresh grad, working exp slightly less than a year.
just curious, your not in xxxxxxxxg right?
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  #4125 (permalink)  
Old 17-09-2014, 06:02 PM
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Your observations are those who realize their CEP. Many have AD or DD CEP but don't move up for various reasons (e.g. openings available, others with same CEP etc). Just cos you have CEP doesn't mean you will reach there.
You will reach the lower ones. That I m very very sure. esp the AD. Unless you quit midway years.
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  #4126 (permalink)  
Old 17-09-2014, 06:07 PM
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You will reach the lower ones. That I m very very sure. esp the AD. Unless you quit midway years.
yes. I agree. If you are in a ministry, it is almost guaranteed risk free, at least AD level. in MTI, a fresh grad is already an AD. You must have at least been promoted once in your entire career.
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  #4127 (permalink)  
Old 17-09-2014, 08:19 PM
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Quote:
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no doubt CS has its challenges, but my point is how come people in the CS always complain they are underpaid?

for eg, a typical mid career graduate in early 30s in a GLC would struggle to make $90k pa. the money only increases when you get to HOD level, of which there are very few positions.
totally agree!!!

me from GLC

from the info I got,

degree holder(1st job since grad) with 5 - 8 years of exp in GLC, only getting 4k to 5.3k, dependent on your performance bonus/annual increment/promotions, annual salary range from 70k to 100k only (inclusive all bonus/ stock option)
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  #4128 (permalink)  
Old 17-09-2014, 08:39 PM
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yes. I agree. If you are in a ministry, it is almost guaranteed risk free, at least AD level. in MTI, a fresh grad is already an AD. You must have at least been promoted once in your entire career.
To clarify, designation doesn't mean anything in the civil service. AD in name but mx13 n 12 in pay grade. Just that some ministries interact with foreign counterparts that are quite old and senior, so the relatively young officers need to have a higher title to match a bit.
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  #4129 (permalink)  
Old 17-09-2014, 09:15 PM
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To clarify, designation doesn't mean anything in the civil service. AD in name but mx13 n 12 in pay grade. Just that some ministries interact with foreign counterparts that are quite old and senior, so the relatively young officers need to have a higher title to match a bit.
I guess you are referring to MTI. Most ministries/Stat Board start with MX13 or equalvilant grade (Exe, AM, M, etc). Most can reach MX11 (M, AD, etc). The beauty is you can be a MX13 mgr promoted in grade to MX11 mgr doing the same time so sometimes you can have a supervisor (AD) & a M at the same grade. In short, MX11 is an attainable grade even if you are only ordinary but the catch is since you are not having a more senior apptment, you will most prob end your career at MX11.


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  #4130 (permalink)  
Old 17-09-2014, 09:30 PM
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... You need to develop very strong mental resilience to survive the idiotic bureaucracy which gets worse over the years. ...
Hahahahaha... how true.

For those in this rut, think of it this way lah... all this bureaucratic run-around just create jobs for everyone.

Just do what you can within the limitations of the system, keep a good record that you are always trying and not giving up (i.e. copy whole world in your e-mails), always appear positive, then every month collect salary. Rinse and repeat.

There's no point hurrying in CS or PS. You'll be often stalled by the many levels above and not in your dept. Only when the organisation going to lao-sai already, i.e. implementation of whatever is imminent, then suddenly the way is paved and smooth... any obstacle can be removed or overlooked.
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