Mid career crisis

Originally Posted by Unregistered

What i am tryin to say is that 15k avp or vp roles are not entirely low level roles, 5lvl below ceo isnt very low either. Many ppl dont even get there

Actually why dont u put things in perspective, in civil service and many organisations, 13k to 15k is already directorial pay, eventually its where u work that matters.

Whether u go for high risk high pay, or low risk soso pay

Originally Posted by Unregistered

What i am tryin to say is that 15k avp or vp roles are not entirely low level roles, 5lvl below ceo isnt very low either. Many ppl dont even get there

Well if you really think AVP is not low in a bank, then I have nothing to say. I guess its all about perspectives - if you include clearical, cleaners, customer service officer, helpdesk operator, telesales etc then I agree they are considered high.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Well if you really think AVP is not low in a bank, then I have nothing to say. I guess its all about perspectives - if you include clearical, cleaners, customer service officer, helpdesk operator, telesales etc then I agree they are considered high.

In a wider scheme of employment, inclusive of telesales, credit card sales and customer service, AVP and VP is not considered very low if you think about it, some only reach this level at 35. The company does not function only with senior management right, AVP/VP are headhunted from banks to banks all the time. Why do you think they are included in executive search?

And I am saying 12k to 15k in other industries is aldy directorial level, sure we cannot compare everything to the banks. It will be a one-sided judgement. You need to look at the salary from a nationwide perspective.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

In a wider scheme of employment, inclusive of telesales, credit card sales and customer service, AVP and VP is not considered very low if you think about it, some only reach this level at 35. The company does not function only with senior management right, AVP/VP are headhunted from banks to banks all the time. Why do you think they are included in executive search?

And I am saying 12k to 15k in other industries is aldy directorial level, sure we cannot compare everything to the banks. It will be a one-sided judgement. You need to look at the salary from a nationwide perspective.

Which is my original point, we need to look at overall org structure and not just job titles and headhunted by "executive search" or similar rah rah.

The term "executive search" might have meant something maybe in the 1990s, but let's put things in perspective - all sorts of recruitment agencies are calling themselves executive search firms, but how many really recruit executives (i.e. CXO and -2 level below)? Most are just hiring entry to mid level porfessionals. I recieve a few telesales calls from these agents every month as well, there is nothing executive in the way they conduct themselves.

Also I'm not disputing the fact that many 12k+ dudes call themselves "directors" inculding me, but where do they really rank in the organization? Take myself for example, I am a Director in a well known US high tech company, I have only 1 analyst and 1 administrator in my team, I am 5 levels below the CEO and have a job grade that is the first level of what is considered management level internally. If I were your client, you would probably say I'm a mid-senior level guy as well, but I know enough that I'm really just a very junior guy in the grand scheme of things. My country GM (2 levels above me) would probably be a true middle management, but hey he's got a fancy Senior Managing Director title which others will probably call him "executive" level.

Sorry to stop the rather interesting conversation going on, but I have a situation in which I need those more senior and experienced people for advice.

I'm in my late 20s, and currently have a stable job with a decent monthly. I think I am going somewhere in my current organisation (recently promoted), but of course unable to verify so. I've recently gotten an offer elsewhere, with >20% increment in salary (4 digit increment). Job scope is different, not something I am currently doing nor wish to hone my experience in. Not so sure about the career development there as well.

I'm married, no kids, with housing loans to pay. Should I go ahead with the offer, or stick it out in my current organisation?

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Sorry to stop the rather interesting conversation going on, but I have a situation in which I need those more senior and experienced people for advice.

I'm in my late 20s, and currently have a stable job with a decent monthly. I think I am going somewhere in my current organisation (recently promoted), but of course unable to verify so. I've recently gotten an offer elsewhere, with >20% increment in salary (4 digit increment). Job scope is different, not something I am currently doing nor wish to hone my experience in. Not so sure about the career development there as well.

I'm married, no kids, with housing loans to pay. Should I go ahead with the offer, or stick it out in my current organisation?

With this little details provided, i dont think the rest can give you any specific advice.

From my point of view, since you are not interested in the new job, why bother thinking about it? unless you need the money?

Originally Posted by Unregistered

With this little details provided, i dont think the rest can give you any specific advice.

From my point of view, since you are not interested in the new job, why bother thinking about it? unless you need the money?

Monetary reward is a concern, especially since I am the sole breadwinner. What other information would be useful for the analysis of my situation?

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Sorry to stop the rather interesting conversation going on, but I have a situation in which I need those more senior and experienced people for advice.

I'm in my late 20s, and currently have a stable job with a decent monthly. I think I am going somewhere in my current organisation (recently promoted), but of course unable to verify so. I've recently gotten an offer elsewhere, with >20% increment in salary (4 digit increment). Job scope is different, not something I am currently doing nor wish to hone my experience in. Not so sure about the career development there as well.

I'm married, no kids, with housing loans to pay. Should I go ahead with the offer, or stick it out in my current organisation?

You mentioned you are going somewhere in your current role, and there is a recent promotion, why do you want to move out now?

Late 20s, you are planning to have kids right? I will choose the one with stability and room for taking leave and understanding colleagues and boss... Once you have kids, things can change...

I will not move, if I am unsure if the career development is not something I hope to 'hone my experience in'.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Sorry to stop the rather interesting conversation going on, but I have a situation in which I need those more senior and experienced people for advice.

I'm in my late 20s, and currently have a stable job with a decent monthly. I think I am going somewhere in my current organisation (recently promoted), but of course unable to verify so. I've recently gotten an offer elsewhere, with >20% increment in salary (4 digit increment). Job scope is different, not something I am currently doing nor wish to hone my experience in. Not so sure about the career development there as well.

I'm married, no kids, with housing loans to pay. Should I go ahead with the offer, or stick it out in my current organisation?

Based on my instinct, you should just stay on, have kids and pay off your HDB loan as fast as possible and then upgrade to a new condo later in life.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Which is my original point, we need to look at overall org structure and not just job titles and headhunted by "executive search" or similar rah rah.

The term "executive search" might have meant something maybe in the 1990s, but let's put things in perspective - all sorts of recruitment agencies are calling themselves executive search firms, but how many really recruit executives (i.e. CXO and -2 level below)? Most are just hiring entry to mid level porfessionals. I recieve a few telesales calls from these agents every month as well, there is nothing executive in the way they conduct themselves.

Also I'm not disputing the fact that many 12k+ dudes call themselves "directors" inculding me, but where do they really rank in the organization? Take myself for example, I am a Director in a well known US high tech company, I have only 1 analyst and 1 administrator in my team, I am 5 levels below the CEO and have a job grade that is the first level of what is considered management level internally. If I were your client, you would probably say I'm a mid-senior level guy as well, but I know enough that I'm really just a very junior guy in the grand scheme of things. My country GM (2 levels above me) would probably be a true middle management, but hey he's got a fancy Senior Managing Director title which others will probably call him "executive" level.

Perhaps you are being too modest. As the country manager and head of the organization in Singapore, shouldn't he be considered senior management? And since you are only a couple of layers below him, you could qualify as middle management, no?

I also think salary alone does not determine how senior a person is in the management hierarchy. I was only earning four-figure salary in a previous organisation but was considered middle management because of the level of responsibility and the number of people under me. And it was not a small organisation. Perhaps also because the organisation was bottom heavy. Now, I'm earning more in another organisation but would barely be called junior management. The scope for decision making in this position is much less than previously.