Mid career crisis

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I was in the civil service (7yrs), last drawn 4k before moving to recruitment sales. 29yo this yr sim grad.

I just wan to say that after being a recruiter i realized much to my astonishment, many people are unemployed at late 30s and early 40s, many are laid off though some claimed they resigned to take a break. My point is, if you are earning a good 5digit pay cheque in roles where there are plenty of candidates (banking,marketing, HR...etc), i will always be able to find someone who's willing to do your job at half the price you are commanding. Hence, many companies restructure to 'get rid' of high earners.

There are many roles out there without aws or other bonus structure so whatever you think you are earning now every month is unimportant because what matters most in the entire salary package and JOB SECURITY. Call me old school, but as a recruiter i have seen pple earning a ridiculous pay cheque for uncomplicated job scope while pple who r talented take home peanuts.

Take the comments here with a pinch of salt. You are lucky with what you have and where u r. There are those who have been jobless for more than a year and refused to take a pay cut.

Honestly well paying jobs are the sales line, if u wan to earn big bucks u have to slog ur ass off. Otherwise, focus on quality of living instead...

The situation really depends on the level of career you are in. For jr manager & below type of jobs (roughly <250k p.a.) is particularly dangerous especially if you are in mid to late 40s. Once you get retrenched its more or less game over as employers tend to prefer younger candidates who have the energy and potential to grow. This sort of level also has plenty of cheaper candidates in developing countries.

For the middle management level (~250-600k p.a.) things tend to get a bit better as this group usually has strong professional network / standing and some sort of expertise be it technical or corporate so they tend to find it easier to get another job even if retrenched. The seniority of their job also makes it harder for employers to find fresh grads or youngsters to replace.

For the executive level (>600k p.a.) they are usually very safe, in fact even safer than a young fresh grad. The pool for this group is so small and the jobs are so global in nature that demand often exceed supply. For them its more about whether they like the company, feel empowered or feel interested in the work itself. It's an elite old boy's club where they rub each others back, sit on each other's company as directors or advisors and look after one another.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

This is very good advice. If I am in my early 40s working in finance sector, earning $200k pa, is it better for me to stay put in a fully paid HDB flat or to upgrade to a condo and take on more mortgage? What are the risk of me being replaced in a role which can be done by someone else cheaper?

My honest opinion is for you to upgrade to a condo if your existing hdb has been paid for and u have extra cash for a condo. If your flat has been paid for, then buy another condo, rent out the flat and use the cash for the installment. Purchasing condo is a form of forced savings and these money will come in handy when u r nearing retirement age, otherwise you will have to work till 91.

Finance sectors depending on which companies you are in, does your company have restructuring often and the tendencies to get rid of 'expensive' people, if yes, you may be in for some trouble. Some banks though, do not practice retrenchment and if your company is a 'safe' one, you dont have to worry. In the event that you are retrenched, remember to lower you expectations when you are looking out. There's no guarrantee that a job is yours forever, but i will not worry too much. Risk wise I can't advise, but my experience as a recruiter tells me managerial roles at 200k pa gets retrenched as well. But like i have said, if you company is a responsible and profitable one, you don't have to worry.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

The situation really depends on the level of career you are in. For jr manager & below type of jobs (roughly <250k p.a.) is particularly dangerous especially if you are in mid to late 40s. Once you get retrenched its more or less game over as employers tend to prefer younger candidates who have the energy and potential to grow. This sort of level also has plenty of cheaper candidates in developing countries.

For the middle management level (~250-600k p.a.) things tend to get a bit better as this group usually has strong professional network / standing and some sort of expertise be it technical or corporate so they tend to find it easier to get another job even if retrenched. The seniority of their job also makes it harder for employers to find fresh grads or youngsters to replace.

For the executive level (>600k p.a.) they are usually very safe, in fact even safer than a young fresh grad. The pool for this group is so small and the jobs are so global in nature that demand often exceed supply. For them its more about whether they like the company, feel empowered or feel interested in the work itself. It's an elite old boy's club where they rub each others back, sit on each other's company as directors or advisors and look after one another.

My experience is whether you are a junior manager or a middle one, as long as I can find someone to fill in that role at half the salary you are commanding, you are as good as dead to me. Some recruiters has strong ties with the companies, they may also advise companies to lay off expensive pple and fill them in with cheaper ones. There is no guarantee that things get better for people with 'strong professional network' because times are ever changing. Many young people have good networks, yes business relationships are important but it is not all. Unless you are a brilliant talent with super niche skills (oil drill engineers, software developers (local) or solutions architect), i think you will be easily replacable.

I have spoken to marketing, HR and finance people who got retrenched and they were merely earning slightly over 12 to 15k per month. Some AVP or senior AVP are in the same shoes, u think the companies care if you have 'networks', everybody has 'networks', and many people prefer hiring someone who's actively building close relationship than sporadic ones. My colleague from India told me that whatever roles you can think of in India, there will always be someone better and cheaper. The same is happening here in Singapore. Finance industry in particular don't give a **** if you are local a not, unlike other sectors.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

My experience is whether you are a junior manager or a middle one, as long as I can find someone to fill in that role at half the salary you are commanding, you are as good as dead to me. Some recruiters has strong ties with the companies, they may also advise companies to lay off expensive pple and fill them in with cheaper ones. There is no guarantee that things get better for people with 'strong professional network' because times are ever changing. Many young people have good networks, yes business relationships are important but it is not all. Unless you are a brilliant talent with super niche skills (oil drill engineers, software developers (local) or solutions architect), i think you will be easily replacable.

I have spoken to marketing, HR and finance people who got retrenched and they were merely earning slightly over 12 to 15k per month. Some AVP or senior AVP are in the same shoes, u think the companies care if you have 'networks', everybody has 'networks', and many people prefer hiring someone who's actively building close relationship than sporadic ones. My colleague from India told me that whatever roles you can think of in India, there will always be someone better and cheaper. The same is happening here in Singapore. Finance industry in particular don't give a **** if you are local a not, unlike other sectors.

I will be 39 in a few months time, currently earning $20K (fixed) monthly in a mid-to-upper management job which is actually not very complicated (just that there are not that many people with the technical experience I have). Fortunately the company is still quite profitable, but need to make sure relevance is visible to top management. Have already seen some casualties recently.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

My experience is whether you are a junior manager or a middle one, as long as I can find someone to fill in that role at half the salary you are commanding, you are as good as dead to me. Some recruiters has strong ties with the companies, they may also advise companies to lay off expensive pple and fill them in with cheaper ones. There is no guarantee that things get better for people with 'strong professional network' because times are ever changing. Many young people have good networks, yes business relationships are important but it is not all. Unless you are a brilliant talent with super niche skills (oil drill engineers, software developers (local) or solutions architect), i think you will be easily replacable.

I have spoken to marketing, HR and finance people who got retrenched and they were merely earning slightly over 12 to 15k per month. Some AVP or senior AVP are in the same shoes, u think the companies care if you have 'networks', everybody has 'networks', and many people prefer hiring someone who's actively building close relationship than sporadic ones. My colleague from India told me that whatever roles you can think of in India, there will always be someone better and cheaper. The same is happening here in Singapore. Finance industry in particular don't give a **** if you are local a not, unlike other sectors.

I believe you are not having a broad enough view because you haven't really gotten to the headhunting side of things. When you get to the middle management / executive level, it's a completely different ball game.

We are not talking about some junior manager / senior associate from HR/marketing who is making 12-15k monthly. These are essentially relatively low ranking folks and hence like I orginally stated: prone to getting replaced and hard to get a job once they are retrenched.

I agree completely with your point that at this level, these guys are basically replacable by cheap foreign labour. But I caution that you should not generalize the experience based on your narrow experience on the junior professional recruitment side.

If you are talking about CHRO/CMO level, these 7 figured executives are sorely lacking even in developing countries, so you are not going to find some cheap Indian guy who simply parachutes into a sizable MNC to take over. On the executive level, the general experience is that countries like BRIC have higher salaries than even first world countries. Like I said, completely different landscape.

From the points you brought up, I think I'm at risk. Even though my flat is paid up and currently valued at $400k, I think best for me not to upgrade to a condo as it means I have to take a mortgage of $800k even if I sell my flat and use the $400k as a downpayment to a $1.2m condo. To service a $800k mortgage is no joke. Your idea of buying a condo and rent out the flat is not possible as I don't have much cash to even pay for the condo downpayment. I need to sell the flat to get the cash downpayment. With the big property oversupply coming, renting out may not be possible and I will risk an empty condo. Worse, if I lose my job, how can I ever service the mortgage?

I think the best option for me is to stay in my flat and build up my CPF balance for retirement. I can also invest in blue chip stocks. Property investment today is a very high risk thing to do, especially since I'm at risk of retrenchment given my easily replaceable position.

As for yourself, do you fear of you being replaced too? Are you immune to retrenchment as a recruiter?

Originally Posted by Unregistered

My honest opinion is for you to upgrade to a condo if your existing hdb has been paid for and u have extra cash for a condo. If your flat has been paid for, then buy another condo, rent out the flat and use the cash for the installment. Purchasing condo is a form of forced savings and these money will come in handy when u r nearing retirement age, otherwise you will have to work till 91.

Finance sectors depending on which companies you are in, does your company have restructuring often and the tendencies to get rid of 'expensive' people, if yes, you may be in for some trouble. Some banks though, do not practice retrenchment and if your company is a 'safe' one, you dont have to worry. In the event that you are retrenched, remember to lower you expectations when you are looking out. There's no guarrantee that a job is yours forever, but i will not worry too much. Risk wise I can't advise, but my experience as a recruiter tells me managerial roles at 200k pa gets retrenched as well. But like i have said, if you company is a responsible and profitable one, you don't have to worry.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I will be 39 in a few months time, currently earning $20K (fixed) monthly in a mid-to-upper management job which is actually not very complicated (just that there are not that many people with the technical experience I have). Fortunately the company is still quite profitable, but need to make sure relevance is visible to top management. Have already seen some casualties recently.

That's a low paying exec position IMO and easily replaceable at less than half the price. Are you still servicing mortgage for your HDB flat or condo?

Originally Posted by Unregistered

That's a low paying exec position IMO and easily replaceable at less than half the price. Are you still servicing mortgage for your HDB flat or condo?

Probably not half the price. Maybe 70%. Not sure why you call it low paying though as 95% og the conpany makes less.

Financially probably ok even if I stop work or work for less money as my wife earns $100K p.a. plus we get $20K passive income from fixed income funds and stock dividends. Our net worth is around $3M thanks to earlier savings and gains from some fortunate property investments.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I will be 39 in a few months time, currently earning $20K (fixed) monthly in a mid-to-upper management job which is actually not very complicated (just that there are not that many people with the technical experience I have). Fortunately the company is still quite profitable, but need to make sure relevance is visible to top management. Have already seen some casualties recently.

That's really high.. May I ask:
- Which industry are you in?
- What is the revenue size of the company?
- Mid-to-upper management = Senior Manager? Director?

Originally Posted by Unregistered

That's a low paying exec position IMO and easily replaceable at less than half the price. Are you still servicing mortgage for your HDB flat or condo?

Low? Do u even know what you are talking about?