Mid career crisis

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I believe you are not having a broad enough view because you haven't really gotten to the headhunting side of things. When you get to the middle management / executive level, it's a completely different ball game.

We are not talking about some junior manager / senior associate from HR/marketing who is making 12-15k monthly. These are essentially relatively low ranking folks and hence like I orginally stated: prone to getting replaced and hard to get a job once they are retrenched.

I agree completely with your point that at this level, these guys are basically replacable by cheap foreign labour. But I caution that you should not generalize the experience based on your narrow experience on the junior professional recruitment side.

If you are talking about CHRO/CMO level, these 7 figured executives are sorely lacking even in developing countries, so you are not going to find some cheap Indian guy who simply parachutes into a sizable MNC to take over. On the executive level, the general experience is that countries like BRIC have higher salaries than even first world countries. Like I said, completely different landscape.

I am not sure if you are the one who commented that the 20k chap is earning 'low' but if you are, like i mentioned in the post, i dont think you know what you are dealing with. Please don't make irresponsible comments and jump to conclusions like that.

fYI, i recruit for roles minimally 7k and above, my average placement is 16k per month, 12k to 15k is low, what are you talking about?

My regional director earns 18k basic, with commission he earns approx. 40k per month, he is angmoh, my firm is an MNC. I go to executive parties and networking events to headhunt people, i am not sure if you have any idea how annoying you sound when you put people down by saying they earn peanuts and you talk like you are some C suites level exec.

Like i have said, times have changed, many regional directors and country managers are Indians FYi, do a search on LInkedin pls, and no they are not cheap but they are definitely cheaper. I cannot name companies here simply because it is unprofessional. You think foreign labour are cheap? I am talking about angmohs and Indians with an astronomical sum of money every month, these people come in and take our jobs and so singaporeans get laid off to give way to either a cheaper alternative or someone perceived as one with more networks.

I still don't understand why you will coin people who earn 12k to 15k a month super junior managers. They are middle management and very prone to retrenchment. Stop giving misleading info!

Fyi i have done a 600k deal before, i dont just do 'narrow minded junior roles', 7k a month is junior role then 4k a month is cleaner role huh?

Originally Posted by Unregistered

From the points you brought up, I think I'm at risk. Even though my flat is paid up and currently valued at $400k, I think best for me not to upgrade to a condo as it means I have to take a mortgage of $800k even if I sell my flat and use the $400k as a downpayment to a $1.2m condo. To service a $800k mortgage is no joke. Your idea of buying a condo and rent out the flat is not possible as I don't have much cash to even pay for the condo downpayment. I need to sell the flat to get the cash downpayment. With the big property oversupply coming, renting out may not be possible and I will risk an empty condo. Worse, if I lose my job, how can I ever service the mortgage?

I think the best option for me is to stay in my flat and build up my CPF balance for retirement. I can also invest in blue chip stocks. Property investment today is a very high risk thing to do, especially since I'm at risk of retrenchment given my easily replaceable position.

As for yourself, do you fear of you being replaced too? Are you immune to retrenchment as a recruiter?

Recruitment is a sales role so if i dont make placement i will be sacked,i have a monthly target and if i dont meet that i will be asked to leave. Yes i will be replaced, when i become older and more senile, younger and energetic peopl will replace me.

Like i have mentioned, buying a condo is an expensive chore but if you really do invest in one, treat it as forced savings, property prices here will never fall, it will be a good source of income when you decide to sell off the condo for some cold hard cash after you retire.

However, i dont do condos and will never buy one just for the simple reason that i rather have kids and be happy with what i have now. We do have plans to migrate (though all is too soon to decide now) but ultimately i will never buy a condo in sg, neither will i buy a car after my coe expires in 3 years' time. That's just me being practical. I do agree with your investment strategies though i cannot comment much because i am not an expert in this area.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

That's really high.. May I ask:
- Which industry are you in?
- What is the revenue size of the company?
- Mid-to-upper management = Senior Manager? Director?

Director level, in the Finance industry

Revenue is in $Bs

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I still don't understand why you will coin people who earn 12k to 15k a month super junior managers. They are middle management and very prone to retrenchment. Stop giving misleading info!

Nah 12-15k per month ain't really middle management in global MNCs, titles can be misleading. In a big company, it will be like 5 levels below CEO.

I know for some big banks & o&g companies 12k doesn't even reach management grade.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Nah 12-15k per month ain't really middle management in global MNCs, titles can be misleading. In a big company, it will be like 5 levels below CEO.

I know for some big banks & o&g companies 12k doesn't even reach management grade.

Depends on your definition of management. 12k is usually either a senior avp or entry vp in Citi and most of them are single contributors or lead 1-3 staff below. If we are talking about Citi in SG then yes maybe they are consider more entry level management, but on a group level then definitely no.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Nah 12-15k per month ain't really middle management in global MNCs, titles can be misleading. In a big company, it will be like 5 levels below CEO.

I know for some big banks & o&g companies 12k doesn't even reach management grade.

12k for niche roles are low level jobs, for instance .net developer or infrastructure lead, 12k for bankers or finance roles is extremely high, because there are just too many of them out there... I did AVP roles and many MNcs are very stingy, i placed with an american bank and the AVP was offered 13k, roles that are 600k per annum and above are very very rare. Definitely aldy the highest... Usually u will be happy if u get 12k to 15k...

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Nah 12-15k per month ain't really middle management in global MNCs, titles can be misleading. In a big company, it will be like 5 levels below CEO.

I know for some big banks & o&g companies 12k doesn't even reach management grade.

Quite true. I make $20K a month and am 5 levels below the CEO.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

12k for niche roles are low level jobs, for instance .net developer or infrastructure lead, 12k for bankers or finance roles is extremely high, because there are just too many of them out there... I did AVP roles and many MNcs are very stingy, i placed with an american bank and the AVP was offered 13k, roles that are 600k per annum and above are very very rare. Definitely aldy the highest... Usually u will be happy if u get 12k to 15k...

$600k+ would be like a newly promoted MD in a bank, should be considered senior management already. As for 13k AVP in the bank you say, let's get real - throw a stone everywhere you can get a AVP/VP in a bank, most of them dont even have anyone report into them.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

$600k+ would be like a newly promoted MD in a bank, should be considered senior management already. As for 13k AVP in the bank you say, let's get real - throw a stone everywhere you can get a AVP/VP in a bank, most of them dont even have anyone report into them.

What i am tryin to say is that 15k avp or vp roles are not entirely low level roles, 5lvl below ceo isnt very low either. Many ppl dont even get there