Q: Big4 - Yearly salary increment

Originally Posted by Unregistered

This stems from a few key factors:

1. Until a few years ago. Getting into accounting was hard. It was a min AAA/B course. However, because of this lack of interest and what not our dear NBS has tanked to a BBC/C or some **** course that everyone can get in. This degrades the local prestige and has affected the quality of local graduates.

2. Pay in the industry was stagnant at 3 for a good amount of time for a course that takes in AAA/B students. This is why theres a ton of complaints. However, the current starting is suitable for rubbish BBC/C students. Hence I would say it is reasonable because that is the skill level they are paying for.

3. The complaint comes from those who are better performing but also forced to join this stupid system of low pay, long hours with no promise of reward. This is a negative cycle that discourages good students from joining acc and as a result reduce the amount of good people in the profession and naturally, the quality of work.

So yes, 4k for scrubs to do work monkey can do is alright. But we dont want to be a profession that does things even monkeys can do. But in order for us to improve, it becomes a chicken and egg problem. Raise salaries > entice more ppl to join > quality improve. But the first thing that needs to be done is raise salaries for these monkeys before it can attract better people.

Oh for sure. I definitely agree that a higher salary entices more people to join which means big 4 gets to be more choosy/picky, ultimately raising the quality. But as it is right now, 4k for a ‘JHK job’ is honestly not that bad all things considered.

It just triggers me when all these boomers that left big 4 donkey years ago comment here thinking it is still 2005.

What you pay is what you get.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

So yes, 4k for scrubs to do work monkey can do is alright. But we dont want to be a profession that does things even monkeys can do. But in order for us to improve, it becomes a chicken and egg problem. Raise salaries > entice more ppl to join > quality improve. But the first thing that needs to be done is raise salaries for these monkeys before it can attract better people.

Not possible. This is structural in nature, due to the mandatory and backward looking nature of audit work. It is not advisory or value creative. It is there to tick a regulatory checkbox.

The only way to increase margins for the top earners is to keep the cost of services low. That means auditors' pay.

Other professional services charge based on percentage of transaction value, or unit of time cost. Clients are willing to pay for these, because the end product is bespoke, unlike audit services, which is commoditized.

If you hire a lawyer to solve a legal trouble, you hope for some favourable outcome but you never know what it will really be. Same with consulting. Hence, there's bargaining power on the service provider's part. But if you hire an auditor, you know and expect exactly what product or outcome he's supposed to deliver. The bargaining power is on service purchaser's part.

Big4 engagement fees are stuck in a weird place because there's external pressure on overall audit fees, and internal pressure to keep cost low.

why talk until like big 4 owe you a job? Now the big 4 partners are talking about offshoring like using resources from manila,india,sri lanka

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Not possible. This is structural in nature, due to the mandatory and backward looking nature of audit work. It is not advisory or value creative. It is there to tick a regulatory checkbox.

The only way to increase margins for the top earners is to keep the cost of services low. That means auditors' pay.

Other professional services charge based on percentage of transaction value, or unit of time cost. Clients are willing to pay for these, because the end product is bespoke, unlike audit services, which is commoditized.

If you hire a lawyer to solve a legal trouble, you hope for some favourable outcome but you never know what it will really be. Same with consulting. Hence, there's bargaining power on the service provider's part. But if you hire an auditor, you know and expect exactly what product or outcome he's supposed to deliver. The bargaining power is on service purchaser's part.

Big4 engagement fees are stuck in a weird place because there's external pressure on overall audit fees, and internal pressure to keep cost low.

Statutory audit is not the only thing that big4 does. you know that right?

Originally Posted by Unregistered

why talk until like big 4 owe you a job? Now the big 4 partners are talking about offshoring like using resources from manila,india,sri lanka

Go ahead and they will sorely regret it when the managers get fed up enough and throw in the towel. All these overseas support staff are worse than trash.

The shitty part for everyone else is that in order for these tone deaf partners to realize how wrong they are, we must go through a period of shittiness. Shitty work quality and more quitting. Esp with greater scrutiny on audit quality because of the uncertainty in the market these few years, when they engagements get called for AQR good luck for them

Then when enough of them get burnt, they will have to take a good look at what the hell they are doing.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Statutory audit is not the only thing that big4 does. you know that right?

what else do they do please share senpai!!

Originally Posted by Unregistered

why talk until like big 4 owe you a job? Now the big 4 partners are talking about offshoring like using resources from manila,india,sri lanka

if they think they have the same competency, sure, go ahead.
partner sign the report anyway.
i've seen how these other countries work.

worst than jhk.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Statutory audit is not the only thing that big4 does. you know that right?

this kind of thing can google and find out de you also need to ask.

no wonder you stuck in big 4

Originally Posted by Unregistered

The number of malaysians in big 4 really a lot. No wonder prestige of audit plummeted so badly over 20 years.

Last time parents are super proud that their son or daughter work in EY, KPMG etc

Now its like, why you so stupid work in these kid of low pay long hours jobs. Especially when they compare with their nieces and nephews work in big mnc and tech companies with good life so eng still high pay plus all the work life balance, diversity inclusion etc etc. While Big 4 still very old school tekan junior style.

the worst part is, mainly branch office (e.g. JB, Malacca) auditors too instead of KL auditors... if you had to work with both before you'd know how big the difference is... even educated KL ppl don't want to do audit anymore lol, that's why workpaper quality becoming worse and worse

Originally Posted by Unregistered

wah in big 4? really? im interested

that guy prolly in audit L&D or audit "data analytics" lol... those ppl barely work... keep taichi work back to auditors so end up we do half their work anyway...