Engineer to banking

OP I know how you feel there's no place for engineers in SG. The whole field is getting swamped by FTs

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I am a third class local uni engine grad and went to look for banking operation job in a recruitment agency today.

I was told there are no permanent positions for my background and qualifications, and banks only offer contract to no experienced people like me. As such, the consultant said there is a $2400 private bank job opening (performance reporting) in the back office which is roughly 7-8 months contracy.

I would like to ask for people with my background, how much will be a fair salary? what you guys think of $2400? and what are your views on contract (7-8 months) ? and do you think I should find permanent one or do I stand no chance for permanent?

Thanks if anyone would like to express the market rate for back office operations with my background, as I really do not know which type of pay is acceptable or high or low.

Thanks to anyone who read this

Well, I don't claim to know much about banking, but all I have heard about contract jobs is that they lead to no where and its very difficult to get converted to a permanent position.

Hopefully someone else can answer your question about a bank job.

However, since you are so young I'm going to give u some advice, take it with an open mind. Try to find a professional job somewhere else, in US or UK or Australia, where you will get a higher pay, and more importantly, your purchasing power will be much higher than in Singapore. Work life balance is likely to be better too. You'll be able to afford the necessities in life such as a decent apartment and a car much sooner. You'll find that things are cheaper. Since you are young, you have time on your side and its easier to get a visa as well.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Well, I don't claim to know much about banking, but all I have heard about contract jobs is that they lead to no where and its very difficult to get converted to a permanent position.

Hopefully someone else can answer your question about a bank job.

However, since you are so young I'm going to give u some advice, take it with an open mind. Try to find a professional job somewhere else, in US or UK or Australia, where you will get a higher pay, and more importantly, your purchasing power will be much higher than in Singapore. Work life balance is likely to be better too. You'll be able to afford the necessities in life such as a decent apartment and a car much sooner. You'll find that things are cheaper. Since you are young, you have time on your side and its easier to get a visa as well.

Ah since you are young, and trained as an engineer (like me, and I have some time to type) I'm going to add to this. Even though you have 3rd class hons, that's not very good but its certainly not the end. You don't need to have good grades to be rich. All you need to do is
- don't spend money unnecessarily, save as much as you can
- try to find some alternative income stream such as a small business or trading or whatever to increase your overall income. Don't depend on salary alone.
- buy property and stocks during a downturn
Do the above and you'll be set for life. Easier said than done, but its a proven way.

Why do I encourage you to go overseas? I've been in the UK for some time now. Previously spent all my time in Singapore, and its only since I came here that my eyes opened. Previously I thought that Singapore is great, its safe, efficient, my family and friends are here, I'm not earning that much but I'm OK. I thought that life overseas is expensive and taxes are high. Then I came here and realised that
- 2000 pounds (4000 SGD) can buy you a second hand 1.8L car. No COE means you can drive that car as long as you want.
- 80,000 pounds can buy you a 2 bedroom apartment
- online shopping, groceries are cheap. Cheaper than in SG.
- its less crowded, and UK is very scenic
- tax may be high (around 30% perhaps for a professional), BUT healthcare is FREE, and there is pension

In Singapore
- COE alone is 50,000SGD now. Add cost of car and its close to 100,000. And I can only drive the car for 10 years. But I need a car to start a family!
- pay 500,000 or more for a pigeonhole to live in
- its hot, its crowded, its going to get more crowded
- no pension, healthcare is not free

You are probably better off working and settling down overseas.

Originally Posted by index999

I know my expectation, I nv said in the first place in my thread that I would like to be an IB/ analyst or whatsoever. So is kinda confused me how the discussion lead to that direction in the first place. Even if I have to start from the bottom to join the industry, I am willing enough. Perhaps what you wouldn't like to do would give u he biggest clue for what you would love to do. The first few years Afta graduation would be try-out period. I would like to hear inputs from ppl working in the industry.

This is even more senseless than your starting. So now we don't even know what you are interested other than you are willing "to start from the bottom" in the industry. Finance industry has countless jobs and all are so completely different from each other, what is the point of your thread then?

So 1 guy say he work in Risk, the other say he in Treasury, another say Shared Service, yet another say HR, an then another say Trading, next 1 in BD, another IB, another PB, another in CS, Compliance, Audit etc. How is that useful to your quest to "start from the bottom"?

Suggestion, just go look for a job in what you study lar, you sound just like the many people who start thread about want to join bank and know nothing about banks. If you had half a clue on what you want, you won't ask the question in such a hap hazard way liao.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Oh man you hit them on the soft spot. Like I repeated many time in that Barclay thread and some other finance threads. Go ask ppl working in banks whats the environment. I think TS need to seriously wake up his idea that people working in banks = bankers = investment bankers.

For god's sake, TS should go think of some creative business ideas and become the next Mark Zuckerberg. If not just continue working like a donkey till you end up in the grave and hope that when you reborn again, you can get better grades and hopefully be a investment banker.

I think part of the problem is there are a lot highly dubious "stories" put up by anonymous forumers claiming fantastic pay & bonus working in a bank. I seriously dun believe any of that BS since my theory is anyone who can make so much money as they say won't have time or interest in sharing stories in a BBS.

Some of it is also downright laughable for anyone who actually work before. All this hearsay online and offline just encourage more of these unhappy people in other fields to suddenly develop "passion" for finance and all want to be bankers suddenly.

I have only one piece of advice for the TS: take the damn contract position if offered!

let's have a look at what you have: a 3rd class degree and no experience. ok so you basically be nothing working for you and everything working against you. you were given a chance to prove yourself in the local uni; you blew it and got a 3rd class. yes, i'm sure you have sob stories to share, but chances are you screwed up cos you didn't care. and you have no relevant work experience, which means that you know next to nothing on the job that you are applying for, and is therefore of no value.

if a contract job is offered to you, take it. even if they pay you crap, take it. but that's not all. take it and be prepared to work very hard. if the bank offers you a contract job, your potential boss is actually throwing you a bone, ie giving you a chance to redeem yourself. So do all the **** that nobody wants to do, and do it so well the **** becomes gold. work the hardest, and learn as much as you can. everything ppl throw at you, so yes with a smile and then say thank you. and then deliver the work at the highest quality you can offer.

if you can do the above, i am sure that you will be made permanent. u wasted 4 years, and now is a chance to make up for your wasted years in 7-8months. you'll be a fool not to seize it.

people who don't believe banking pays well typically because they are not willing to sacrifice, and wants work-life balance. balance my ass. if you don't work your ass off when you are young, when can you do it? when you are old? the salary in banks starts low but shoots up exponentially if you prove that you are reliable and good. by good, i don't mean smart, i mean willing to do the hard work. if you are willing to work hard, making a 100k annual package will take no more than 5year. by then you will be at a base that is 40-50% higher than your work-life balance peers, and that's when you can decide if you want more, or real work-life balance.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

people who don't believe banking pays well typically because they are not willing to sacrifice, and wants work-life balance. balance my ass. if you don't work your ass off when you are young, when can you do it? when you are old? the salary in banks starts low but shoots up exponentially if you prove that you are reliable and good. by good, i don't mean smart, i mean willing to do the hard work. if you are willing to work hard, making a 100k annual package will take no more than 5year. by then you will be at a base that is 40-50% higher than your work-life balance peers, and that's when you can decide if you want more, or real work-life balance.

It takes far more than just sacrifice long hours or do job sui sui to make it big in a bank. If it were just that, there would be truckloads of super high paying dudes in any bank now. The finance industry has no shortage of people chalking up long hours or doing sai gang, but how many really make it big in the end? For every 1 successful million dollar banker, there are probably another 20 who work just as hard, but are stuck in normal menial ops role after many years.

Devoting yourself to monster 15-hour work days during young and relax when you reach 40 rich may sound like a good idea at first. But what happens often is that when you look back at 40 yrs old, you find you loose the most precious commodity that no money can buy - time.

Sure, maybe at 40 your pay is 50% higher than peers, so? You lost out on non-professional social network, your family, if any, probably sux relationship wise since you are never at home, your health likely suffers due to overwork, you find out at the age of 40 you know nobody, nothing else besides work. What are you going to do then? Take a lower paying job and restart your entire life in terms of family, friends, hobbies, health etc? This is easier said than done.

I have nothing against people who made a decision to go for such a lifestyle in pursuit of money, it is their choice. But a brash dismissal of anyone who might harbor different preferences and outlook on life can only be done by someone who has a very inexperienced and narrow view of life.

You're a classic case of sour grapes. There are lots of high earners who have it all. Good life good wife good kids lots of moolah. I know you don't.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

It takes far more than just sacrifice long hours or do job sui sui to make it big in a bank. If it were just that, there would be truckloads of super high paying dudes in any bank now. The finance industry has no shortage of people chalking up long hours or doing sai gang, but how many really make it big in the end? For every 1 successful million dollar banker, there are probably another 20 who work just as hard, but are stuck in normal menial ops role after many years.

Devoting yourself to monster 15-hour work days during young and relax when you reach 40 rich may sound like a good idea at first. But what happens often is that when you look back at 40 yrs old, you find you loose the most precious commodity that no money can buy - time.

Sure, maybe at 40 your pay is 50% higher than peers, so? You lost out on non-professional social network, your family, if any, probably sux relationship wise since you are never at home, your health likely suffers due to overwork, you find out at the age of 40 you know nobody, nothing else besides work. What are you going to do then? Take a lower paying job and restart your entire life in terms of family, friends, hobbies, health etc? This is easier said than done.

I have nothing against people who made a decision to go for such a lifestyle in pursuit of money, it is their choice. But a brash dismissal of anyone who might harbor different preferences and outlook on life can only be done by someone who has a very inexperienced and narrow view of life.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Ah since you are young, and trained as an engineer (like me, and I have some time to type) I'm going to add to this. Even though you have 3rd class hons, that's not very good but its certainly not the end. You don't need to have good grades to be rich. All you need to do is
- don't spend money unnecessarily, save as much as you can
- try to find some alternative income stream such as a small business or trading or whatever to increase your overall income. Don't depend on salary alone.
- buy property and stocks during a downturn
Do the above and you'll be set for life. Easier said than done, but its a proven way.

Why do I encourage you to go overseas? I've been in the UK for some time now. Previously spent all my time in Singapore, and its only since I came here that my eyes opened. Previously I thought that Singapore is great, its safe, efficient, my family and friends are here, I'm not earning that much but I'm OK. I thought that life overseas is expensive and taxes are high. Then I came here and realised that
- 2000 pounds (4000 SGD) can buy you a second hand 1.8L car. No COE means you can drive that car as long as you want.
- 80,000 pounds can buy you a 2 bedroom apartment
- online shopping, groceries are cheap. Cheaper than in SG.
- its less crowded, and UK is very scenic
- tax may be high (around 30% perhaps for a professional), BUT healthcare is FREE, and there is pension

In Singapore
- COE alone is 50,000SGD now. Add cost of car and its close to 100,000. And I can only drive the car for 10 years. But I need a car to start a family!
- pay 500,000 or more for a pigeonhole to live in
- its hot, its crowded, its going to get more crowded
- no pension, healthcare is not free

You are probably better off working and settling down overseas.

Thanks for your time to write such a thoughtful reply. To be honest, I would like to base myself in Singapore, although going overseas to work is a good idea

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I have only one piece of advice for the TS: take the damn contract position if offered!

let's have a look at what you have: a 3rd class degree and no experience. ok so you basically be nothing working for you and everything working against you. you were given a chance to prove yourself in the local uni; you blew it and got a 3rd class. yes, i'm sure you have sob stories to share, but chances are you screwed up cos you didn't care. and you have no relevant work experience, which means that you know next to nothing on the job that you are applying for, and is therefore of no value.

if a contract job is offered to you, take it. even if they pay you crap, take it. but that's not all. take it and be prepared to work very hard. if the bank offers you a contract job, your potential boss is actually throwing you a bone, ie giving you a chance to redeem yourself. So do all the **** that nobody wants to do, and do it so well the **** becomes gold. work the hardest, and learn as much as you can. everything ppl throw at you, so yes with a smile and then say thank you. and then deliver the work at the highest quality you can offer.

if you can do the above, i am sure that you will be made permanent. u wasted 4 years, and now is a chance to make up for your wasted years in 7-8months. you'll be a fool not to seize it.

people who don't believe banking pays well typically because they are not willing to sacrifice, and wants work-life balance. balance my ass. if you don't work your ass off when you are young, when can you do it? when you are old? the salary in banks starts low but shoots up exponentially if you prove that you are reliable and good. by good, i don't mean smart, i mean willing to do the hard work. if you are willing to work hard, making a 100k annual package will take no more than 5year. by then you will be at a base that is 40-50% higher than your work-life balance peers, and that's when you can decide if you want more, or real work-life balance.

Thanks for your advice too . I am not the threadstarter, noticed he studied chem engineering. I am another person who have just grad from local U who studied another type of engineering.

I will look to other job agencies to see if I have chance of landing perm operation jobs in bank and also to test for the market rate to see if its possible to get more than $2400. If not, I most probably have to try for contract positions.