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  #6321 (permalink)  
Old 16-06-2020, 11:54 AM
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Still can choose? Apply all lah.

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  #6322 (permalink)  
Old 16-06-2020, 12:13 PM
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Still can choose? Apply all lah.
My friends all get rejected by Big 4.

I heard a certain firm keep saying retention rate 50% but under-retain/don't retain. I don't want to be at one of those firms.

I think I'll be quite prejudiced by the non-retention decision as I will have to explain it.... I know I'm not very smart lah as I didn't go to NUS or a prestigious uni

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  #6323 (permalink)  
Old 16-06-2020, 12:34 PM
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Most small firm lawyers pivot to a profit sharing model once they hit 4-5pqe.

That's my experience anyway, and why you'll sometimes (SOMETIMES) hear of these peeps earning more than their bigger firm counterparts do. How much you earn at this stage really depends on the type and volume of work you do. Doing only a bunch of uncontested divorces isn't going to make you a millionare - no shade to fam lawyers. Just that you'll need to handle a good number of contested matters to earn the big bucks.

You can expect the following (small firm)

Nq 3,000-4,5000
1pqe 4,500- 5,500
2pqe 5,500 -6,000
3pqe 6,000-6,500
4pqe 8,000-8,500

You should expect a pay bump from assoc to senior asssoc (3-4pqe). I'd say 1,500 - 2000.

Mid size, slap on an additional 1,000 - 1,500 at each level.

At 3-4 pqe is where your fate is really decided.

If your firm doesnt intend to promote/prepare you for partnership, you will no longer get pay increases and large bonuses. If the firm is nice, they will tell you to your face they have no intention of offering you partnership (or to profit share). This is usually the case for firms that specialise in bulk work... This is not limited to small firms - think about mid size debt collection or family law practices (i can name you 4 off the top of my head). Once you hit a certain pay, you are no profitable to keep on staff. It will be easier for the firm to hire a new nq assoc (or trainee).

This is also the stage you can start negotiating for a cut of your files or a cut of firm profits... Or at least start dropping hints that you do not intend to be a slave forever. The downside with this strategy is that you have to be ready to face an answer you don't like and prepare to move on.

The good news is that if you've spent the last 3 years making a name for yourself... You can pivot into roles in bigger firms (albeit taking a cut to your pqe - but you'll still get paid more). I've seen it done before.

If you haven't, you now have the statutorily mandated years of experience to start up on your own. I've similarly seen this done before.

The bad news is that apart from these options the only other option would be to jump from small/mid size law firm to law firm until one is willing to offer you partnership track. This means working your way from bottom up again. It is a painful process. If i had to do this, i'd go in house instead.
This was by far the most illuminating post we've seen on this forum in months. When do firms usually announce increments? Is there any room for negotiation?

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  #6324 (permalink)  
Old 16-06-2020, 01:21 PM
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My friends all get rejected by Big 4.

I heard a certain firm keep saying retention rate 50% but under-retain/don't retain. I don't want to be at one of those firms.

I think I'll be quite prejudiced by the non-retention decision as I will have to explain it.... I know I'm not very smart lah as I didn't go to NUS or a prestigious uni
Why so self-deprecating?
Economy is bad anyway.
Donít trust the US market. Itís on steroids.
Just donít find work for now.
Rest 6 months, take it as an extended call break.
The more you apply the more youíll be depressed.
Itís just not the right time.
Sit back, chill and wait 6 months.
The local grad keep dissing delisted and Harvard because they keep thinking these people stealing their jobs. Wake up. Itís across the board.
Delisted, listed, UK, Aust, NZ, etc.
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  #6325 (permalink)  
Old 16-06-2020, 01:39 PM
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My friends all get rejected by Big 4.

I heard a certain firm keep saying retention rate 50% but under-retain/don't retain. I don't want to be at one of those firms.

I think I'll be quite prejudiced by the non-retention decision as I will have to explain it.... I know I'm not very smart lah as I didn't go to NUS or a prestigious uni
One step at a time. Many trainees don't get retained for no other reason than economic factors which are constantly changing. You will not be prejudiced simply because you have not been retained.

Further, the above poster is correct. You cannot choose. You apply to every single law firm you can think of until you get a TC. The sad fact is that you might not get a TC in the firms you're thinking about, not even if you get a first overall. The even sadder fact is that you may not get a TC at all.

You should realign your expectations with current market conditions. Applying only to Big4 and FLAs in these times would not be a wise move.

I would also say that you are quite lucky in that you have a six months buffer period for which you would be sitting for Part A. You should make full use of this time.


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  #6326 (permalink)  
Old 16-06-2020, 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Why so self-deprecating?
Economy is bad anyway.
Donít trust the US market. Itís on steroids.
Just donít find work for now.
Rest 6 months, take it as an extended call break.
The more you apply the more youíll be depressed.
Itís just not the right time.
Sit back, chill and wait 6 months.
The local grad keep dissing delisted and Harvard because they keep thinking these people stealing their jobs. Wake up. Itís across the board.
Delisted, listed, UK, Aust, NZ, etc.
Lol nice troll. I am a girl btw. I said earlier there is absolutely 0 reason to believe that a moron *graduated from* Harvard or *got into Harvard by merit*. This has nothing to do with 'dissing... Harvard'. Which part of his excellent (note the sarcasm) critical reasoning skills suggests he *graduated* from Harvard.

You're clearly trying to make a reference to an imaginary person. I don't believe the Harvard Graduate bloodline will be sullied by some moron who cited selective bias and then admits he doesn't know what selective bias is
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  #6327 (permalink)  
Old 16-06-2020, 01:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Why so self-deprecating?
Economy is bad anyway.
Donít trust the US market. Itís on steroids.
Just donít find work for now.
Rest 6 months, take it as an extended call break.
The more you apply the more youíll be depressed.
Itís just not the right time.
Sit back, chill and wait 6 months.
The local grad keep dissing delisted and Harvard because they keep thinking these people stealing their jobs. Wake up. Itís across the board.
Delisted, listed, UK, Aust, NZ, etc.
Why does the US market affect me getting a job in SG? I only want to find a job in SG. I'm self depracating because I'm self aware. I know I'm not very smart. Anyway I still have the Bar so I can afford to wait... anyone taking Part B soon
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  #6328 (permalink)  
Old 16-06-2020, 01:50 PM
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Why does the US market affect me getting a job in SG? I only want to find a job in SG. I'm self depracating because I'm self aware. I know I'm not very smart. Anyway I still have the Bar so I can afford to wait... anyone taking Part B soon
You mean deprecating


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  #6329 (permalink)  
Old 16-06-2020, 01:54 PM
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You mean deprecating
Yes anw i want to do a Masters. Is it worth it? My parents already mortgaged our home. Maybe I can apply for a scholarship
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  #6330 (permalink)  
Old 16-06-2020, 01:57 PM
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Yes anw i want to do a Masters. Is it worth it? My parents already mortgaged our home. Maybe I can apply for a scholarship
No a Masters cannot shore up poor undergraduate performance. If you didn't make it to NUS, or failed to get a First, it's useless. Firms will be wondering why you did Masters at C and didn't do undergrad at C. Don't waste your parents CPF
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