Lawyer Salary

Originally Posted by Unregistered

This is clearly a troll. First of all, what does "I lead M&A teams globally" even mean? If you're a lawyer who works in M&A, shouldn't you know yourself? Second, assuming you're on the finance or structuring side, if you are familiar with those firms you should definitely know lawyers from those firms. Wouldn't it be far better for you to seek advice from them rather than some random internet forum?

Please stop wasting everyone's time.

Stop being an asshole. It is an honest question. I am not a lawyer and have not been based in SG for 30 years. Moreover, the lawyers I know from these firms (ie. Japan, Indonesia, UK, Korea, Russia) are not familiar with the local landscape in SG. What makes you think I have not reached out to others (eg former classmates) and why can't I seek views from an internet forum. Plus, judging from your statement above, you really don't know how M&A teams are managed.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Yeah that’s why so many posters are asking whether it’s better to study law in England rather than Singapore so that they don’t end up in the selection bias like you mentioned.
Go overseas in an attempt to beat the odds rather than stay in Singapore and be part of selection bias.

I still don't think you understand what selection bias is, despite numerous attempts to teach you. Clearly you are untrainable and correctly delisted

Originally Posted by Unregistered

L m a o. Look who's lying in an attempt to shore up her self-esteem. The resolution to this is easy - you have not provided a shred of empirical fact, and only your subjective observation on diversity.

(A) Read firm profiles. You will understand that 'diverse' means under-represented.

(B) While you are at it, count Asians.

(C) Let's give you the benefit of the doubt since 'O i know someone from my diverse school who works there'. If this is 5-10%, is it worth 200K? Moron.

Also while you're at it, for every 1 of your friends who are working in these firms, these are token diversity compared to the 10 Oxbridge/London grads who work there.

Looks like you're just bitter at your diversity

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I still don't think you understand what selection bias is, despite numerous attempts to teach you. Clearly you are untrainable and correctly delisted

The OP has a Harvard degree. Comical... must be a disgruntled lawyer

Originally Posted by Unregistered

The OP has a Harvard degree. Comical... must be a disgruntled lawyer

A fake you mean

Originally Posted by Unregistered

A fake you mean

How is it a Harvard grad doesn't know selection bias

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Enough ink has been spilt about the pay at international firms, Big 4 and top mid-sized firms. What about the pay at ordinary mid-sized firms and small firms? What are the salary benchmarks for NQ, 1Q, 2Q, 3Q, 4Q and 5Q at these places? I'm sure many of us plebians would like to know.

Would someone please come back to the main topic?

This forum has been crippled with irrelevant and counterproductive content lately and it shows the heightened bitterness amongst people. Instead of trying to talk people down or force your opinion down others’ throats, let’s all just engage in productive discussions regarding salary and career tips so we can all advance in our career paths in our own ways.

Focus on your problems instead of venting your anger out here. I doubt these people spamming the forum with hate messages actually have the goal to advance their careers.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

How is it a Harvard grad doesn't know selection bias

Too bad. Not every Harvard graduate does economics.
If challenge you in Shakespeare and Hamlet, you can?
If challenge you in French and German on top of your second language you can?
If challenge you in Piano at licentiate level you can?

Any dual-qualified (SG/Eng) lawyers here who is willing to share about the experience after being dual-qualified - did it help in any way in the advancement of your career? If so, how?

Earnest question here - thank you!

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Enough ink has been spilt about the pay at international firms, Big 4 and top mid-sized firms. What about the pay at ordinary mid-sized firms and small firms? What are the salary benchmarks for NQ, 1Q, 2Q, 3Q, 4Q and 5Q at these places? I'm sure many of us plebians would like to know.

Most small firm lawyers pivot to a profit sharing model once they hit 4-5pqe.

That's my experience anyway, and why you'll sometimes (SOMETIMES) hear of these peeps earning more than their bigger firm counterparts do. How much you earn at this stage really depends on the type and volume of work you do. Doing only a bunch of uncontested divorces isn't going to make you a millionare - no shade to fam lawyers. Just that you'll need to handle a good number of contested matters to earn the big bucks.

You can expect the following (small firm)

Nq 3,000-4,5000
1pqe 4,500- 5,500
2pqe 5,500 -6,000
3pqe 6,000-6,500
4pqe 8,000-8,500

You should expect a pay bump from assoc to senior asssoc (3-4pqe). I'd say 1,500 - 2000.

Mid size, slap on an additional 1,000 - 1,500 at each level.

At 3-4 pqe is where your fate is really decided.

If your firm doesnt intend to promote/prepare you for partnership, you will no longer get pay increases and large bonuses. If the firm is nice, they will tell you to your face they have no intention of offering you partnership (or to profit share). This is usually the case for firms that specialise in bulk work... This is not limited to small firms - think about mid size debt collection or family law practices (i can name you 4 off the top of my head). Once you hit a certain pay, you are no profitable to keep on staff. It will be easier for the firm to hire a new nq assoc (or trainee).

This is also the stage you can start negotiating for a cut of your files or a cut of firm profits... Or at least start dropping hints that you do not intend to be a slave forever. The downside with this strategy is that you have to be ready to face an answer you don't like and prepare to move on.

The good news is that if you've spent the last 3 years making a name for yourself... You can pivot into roles in bigger firms (albeit taking a cut to your pqe - but you'll still get paid more). I've seen it done before.

If you haven't, you now have the statutorily mandated years of experience to start up on your own. I've similarly seen this done before.

The bad news is that apart from these options the only other option would be to jump from small/mid size law firm to law firm until one is willing to offer you partnership track. This means working your way from bottom up again. It is a painful process. If i had to do this, i'd go in house instead.