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  #6311 (permalink)  
Old 16-06-2020, 10:01 AM
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Too bad. Not every Harvard graduate does economics.
If challenge you in Shakespeare and Hamlet, you can?
If challenge you in French and German on top of your second language you can?
If challenge you in Piano at licentiate level you can?
Too sad. This has nothing to do with the above.

OP suggested 'selection bias' on his own accord.

Anyway it is doubtful that a moron actually graduated from Harvard or got a place by merit.



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  #6312 (permalink)  
Old 16-06-2020, 10:06 AM
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Any dual-qualified (SG/Eng) lawyers here who is willing to share about the experience after being dual-qualified - did it help in any way in the advancement of your career? If so, how?

Earnest question here - thank you!
SG-qualified corp lawyer who became UK qualified, currently working in offshore.

Honestly, I would say it is unlikely to have an impact on your career. I became UK qualified prior to moving to the offshore (I started at big 4, spent some time in a finance role before moving to my current position) but it was not a focal point of my CV during the interview process. And where I started as well as where I did my degree means that I am the SG law side of the firm, and am rarely put on UK law related matters.

That being said, if I had the inclination to move out of SG entirely i.e. move to London to practice, then this qualification would undoubtedly be not only useful but mandatory. Long story short, for SG lawyers who want to stay in SG, it is unlikely to help.

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  #6313 (permalink)  
Old 16-06-2020, 10:09 AM
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Most small firm lawyers pivot to a profit sharing model once they hit 4-5pqe.

That's my experience anyway, and why you'll sometimes (SOMETIMES) hear of these peeps earning more than their bigger firm counterparts do. How much you earn at this stage really depends on the type and volume of work you do. Doing only a bunch of uncontested divorces isn't going to make you a millionare - no shade to fam lawyers. Just that you'll need to handle a good number of contested matters to earn the big bucks.

You can expect the following (small firm)

Nq 3,000-4,5000
1pqe 4,500- 5,500
2pqe 5,500 -6,000
3pqe 6,000-6,500
4pqe 8,000-8,500

You should expect a pay bump from assoc to senior asssoc (3-4pqe). I'd say 1,500 - 2000.

Mid size, slap on an additional 1,000 - 1,500 at each level.

At 3-4 pqe is where your fate is really decided.

If your firm doesnt intend to promote/prepare you for partnership, you will no longer get pay increases and large bonuses. If the firm is nice, they will tell you to your face they have no intention of offering you partnership (or to profit share). This is usually the case for firms that specialise in bulk work... This is not limited to small firms - think about mid size debt collection or family law practices (i can name you 4 off the top of my head). Once you hit a certain pay, you are no profitable to keep on staff. It will be easier for the firm to hire a new nq assoc (or trainee).

This is also the stage you can start negotiating for a cut of your files or a cut of firm profits... Or at least start dropping hints that you do not intend to be a slave forever. The downside with this strategy is that you have to be ready to face an answer you don't like and prepare to move on.

The good news is that if you've spent the last 3 years making a name for yourself... You can pivot into roles in bigger firms (albeit taking a cut to your pqe - but you'll still get paid more). I've seen it done before.

If you haven't, you now have the statutorily mandated years of experience to start up on your own. I've similarly seen this done before.

The bad news is that apart from these options the only other option would be to jump from small/mid size law firm to law firm until one is willing to offer you partnership track. This means working your way from bottom up again. It is a painful process. If i had to do this, i'd go in house instead.
Thanks for this!

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  #6314 (permalink)  
Old 16-06-2020, 10:16 AM
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SG-qualified corp lawyer who became UK qualified, currently working in offshore.

Honestly, I would say it is unlikely to have an impact on your career. I became UK qualified prior to moving to the offshore (I started at big 4, spent some time in a finance role before moving to my current position) but it was not a focal point of my CV during the interview process. And where I started as well as where I did my degree means that I am the SG law side of the firm, and am rarely put on UK law related matters.

That being said, if I had the inclination to move out of SG entirely i.e. move to London to practice, then this qualification would undoubtedly be not only useful but mandatory. Long story short, for SG lawyers who want to stay in SG, it is unlikely to help.
Does it help in arbitration
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  #6315 (permalink)  
Old 16-06-2020, 10:16 AM
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Does it help in arbitration
Also would you say that if you are paid SG scale you do SG work, but international scale you do international work?


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  #6316 (permalink)  
Old 16-06-2020, 10:19 AM
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Also would you say that if you are paid SG scale you do SG work, but international scale you do international work?
Depends on the firm.

As for arbitration, in terms of law it is a very international field and not specific to any country. So, you should look solely at which firm you are working for in terms of career prospects.
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  #6317 (permalink)  
Old 16-06-2020, 11:34 AM
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SG-qualified corp lawyer who became UK qualified, currently working in offshore.

Honestly, I would say it is unlikely to have an impact on your career. I became UK qualified prior to moving to the offshore (I started at big 4, spent some time in a finance role before moving to my current position) but it was not a focal point of my CV during the interview process. And where I started as well as where I did my degree means that I am the SG law side of the firm, and am rarely put on UK law related matters.

That being said, if I had the inclination to move out of SG entirely i.e. move to London to practice, then this qualification would undoubtedly be not only useful but mandatory. Long story short, for SG lawyers who want to stay in SG, it is unlikely to help.

You did a finance role before moving to your current offshore? What was that and why didn't you stay on?
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  #6318 (permalink)  
Old 16-06-2020, 11:35 AM
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Guys i need advice. I am a rising third year at a UK university in Midlands. I know there's a glut of lawyers in Singapore but despite my best efforts I cannot find a UK TC. I have applied to Big 4 but no response. Which FLAs are worth applying to?
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  #6319 (permalink)  
Old 16-06-2020, 11:40 AM
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Guys i need advice. I am a rising third year at a UK university in Midlands. I know there's a glut of lawyers in Singapore but despite my best efforts I cannot find a UK TC. I have applied to Big 4 but no response. Which FLAs are worth applying to?
Dude don't apply to FLAs. They didn't retain me, but retention rates are really low and some firms have clawed back on retained trainees. In any case if you get Big 4 vs FLA the obvious choice is Big 4 as if the FLA hires based on merit a Big 4 trainee has no issues getting a FLA TC (only baker and cc MC are harder).
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  #6320 (permalink)  
Old 16-06-2020, 11:48 AM
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Dude don't apply to FLAs. They didn't retain me, but retention rates are really low and some firms have clawed back on retained trainees. In any case if you get Big 4 vs FLA the obvious choice is Big 4 as if the FLA hires based on merit a Big 4 trainee has no issues getting a FLA TC (only baker and cc MC are harder).
Yes but I have no choice which should I be aiming at? I got a first for some modules (please don't troll me with posts about degree mill, I find it toxic and I need a TC)
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