Lawyer Salary

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Different poster here. C'mon, AGC pays a measly 3.8k starting to girls (with second uppers), what kind of salary is that? Guys who served NS get ~4.6k (with second uppers) because they are considered to have worked for 2 years. And the increment is also much lower - approximately $450 per year. After 5 years, girls earn only 5.2k while private practitioners would be earning 9-10k.

You sure AGC is good?

Shortsighted and obviously written by a student. Have you even started working yet?

AGC is a stepping stone to other areas of legal service. Within a few short years, many will lateraled out to Deputy Director level positions in the legal service, while those in Big 4 would have either quit, been "encouraged" to leave (i.e. fired) due to poor billables, or not even have made the cut for retention.

Your data on pay is also obviously narrowminded and doesn't take into account that they progress on the payscale much earlier and civil service bonus is good.

To the poster who thinks AGC is about prosecuting "mats for offences", you obviously have no idea what State Counsel or the International affairs division do. BTW i hope you flame out of law because a childish racist like you has no place in the legal profession.

For the record I'm not even in AGC or SLS. I'm in private practice. But I'm just irritated by these little kids shooting their mouths off without the faintest idea what they're talking about

Originally Posted by Unregistered

1. agc pays full salary from day 1 of part b/rlt - that's at least a year of pay (1.5 for UK grads) that can offset some of the gains the pte sector people make after they get called.
2. agc follows gahmen bonus scheme, i.e. 13 month bonus, random mid year and end year bonuses etc and perf bonus. an avg performer can easily collect 4-5 months bonus in total. nowadays the law firms don't pay much bonus if at all.
3. agc sponsors LLM; private firms hardly do.

plus other fringe benefits like better work life balance and good job stability, not like big firms where they may push you out if they dont like your face or if you dont make partner.

and i doubt someone with 5 years of experience in legal svc only earns 5.2k.

The reply above is generally accurate.
1. In practical terms, full salary from day 1 (which includes the typical

Originally Posted by Unregistered

1. agc pays full salary from day 1 of part b/rlt - that's at least a year of pay (1.5 for UK grads) that can offset some of the gains the pte sector people make after they get called.
2. agc follows gahmen bonus scheme, i.e. 13 month bonus, random mid year and end year bonuses etc and perf bonus. an avg performer can easily collect 4-5 months bonus in total. nowadays the law firms don't pay much bonus if at all.
3. agc sponsors LLM; private firms hardly do.

plus other fringe benefits like better work life balance and good job stability, not like big firms where they may push you out if they dont like your face or if you dont make partner.

and i doubt someone with 5 years of experience in legal svc only earns 5.2k.

The reply above is generally accurate.

1. In practical terms, full salary from day 1 (which includes the typical civil service bonus, 13th month bonus, etc.) means that a fresh grad AGC officer would have made around 60k during the TC and Part B period, whereas a fresh grad that went to private sector would have made 15k at most in the same period.

2. In the month following Part B, the private sector grad will start as an associate and perhaps make 5.5k per month. However, the AGC officer would have been given a year-end increment (since he/she would have been considered as working for a year during the TC and Part B period) and his/her pay wouldn't be that far off the private sector associate. Once bonuses are factored in (and legal service bonuses are generally higher than most private sector firms), the AGC officer would be drawing at least the same, if not more, than the private sector grad.

3. Factoring in the head start in the first year (around 40 to 45k+ difference, depending on whether the officer did NS) and the pay increments and bonuses, AGC officers, on average, make more than most private sector associates across the first 4 or even 5 years.

4. It's worth noting that private sector salaries will start to outpace legal service salaries in the 6 to 8th year onwards. Beyond the 8th year, private sector salaries will far exceed that of legal service (assuming you're in an upper tier firm).

A male with NS in legal service for 5 years would definitely make above 120k p.a. Ladies without NS wouldn't be that far off. And yes, the fringe benefits of work-life balance are in fact not that fringe. It's important if you are thinking of staying in the industry long term.

But once you are in the comfort of SLS,
how would you get the skills for real practice?

I am talking about things like facing pressures of meeting clients, networking, hitting billable hours targets、bringing in clients.

These are skills you only build up if you start early in practice from day 1.

For someone in SLS, it’s just comfort zone work.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

But once you are in the comfort of SLS,
how would you get the skills for real practice?

I am talking about things like facing pressures of meeting clients, networking, hitting billable hours targets、bringing in clients.

These are skills you only build up if you start early in practice from day 1.

For someone in SLS, it’s just comfort zone work.

I have been in legal service and private practice. It’s all about what you want out of your job. If your objective is to network, face billing pressures, and learn how to bring in clients, then legal service is not for you since you will never face billing pressures, or have to bring in any clients. But there is a much stronger focus in legal service on arriving at a position that is legally accurate and mentoring wise, legal service is better simply due to the way the government works. There are endless levels of clearance and your work gets picked on till no end. And you may find yourself in front of attorney general himself, trying to defend your work. Again, whether this is good or bad depends on your objectives. If you find it tiresome to have to defend your work an endless number of times, then private practice is def. better.

I have friends who tell me that grades / class of honours become useless once you get your TC. Other friends tell me that they remain important for a good 10 years after graduation (or even for your entire career). Who is correct?

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I have friends who tell me that grades / class of honours become useless once you get your TC. Other friends tell me that they remain important for a good 10 years after graduation (or even for your entire career). Who is correct?

lol unless you wanna join the public sector, grades/honours don't mean anything. i've seen dean listers and first class honours not get retained in big4 firms. don't believe me? ask your seniors who're already working. they're only as good as getting you through the door, but nothing will save you if you're weird/rude/can't get along with your colleagues or the quality of your work is ****.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

lol unless you wanna join the public sector, grades/honours don't mean anything. i've seen dean listers and first class honours not get retained in big4 firms. don't believe me? ask your seniors who're already working. they're only as good as getting you through the door, but nothing will save you if you're weird/rude/can't get along with your colleagues or the quality of your work is ****.

I wouldn’t go to the extent of saying that class of honours “don’t mean anything”. It is a lifelong brand and will help you whenever you look for a new job. At least until you make equity partner - then your grades truly don’t matter anymore.

Also, when you go out there and people know you as the first class guy/girl, you will gain initial respect. You will be seen as smart. But it’s then up to you to show that you live up to your first class.

Why would and should grades matter? Shouldn't the ability to work matters more than what one has achieved in school years ago? What's with the fixation with grades?

From the discussion so far, it seems like the the lawyer industry is not very good - long hours and low pay and lack of certainty to get retained and being judged superficially based on grades.

My question is: how can I get a overseas legal job with a Singapore law school law degree?

Which country outsides recognises our NUS/SMU/SUSS law degree to practice?