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  #1731 (permalink)  
Old 18-10-2017, 07:27 PM
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Hi guys, i need some advice here.
I am graduating next year.
I wonder whether I should take bar and practice? Would it be waste if I dont?

I have a hard time finding a tc and the firm that offered me doesn't pay for my bar course, and its only $300 per month allowance for 6 months during training. Also the firm is not going to retain. So that leaves me another problem to solve a year down the road upon graduation again.

If I just start working, I can earn $3-4k per month.

My question is what opportunities can I get for a legal related role even I do not do part B + tc? Is being called to bar so important?

When I do not get retained, are other law firms keen to hire?
Is getting called to the bar important?

Yes, getting called to the bar is important. Go on a job search website and look up in-house positions. Almost all will require you to have been called to the bar.

Sure if you start working now you can earn 3-4k a month, but your progression will be slow and it will honestly be extremely difficult to negotiate an increase in salary thereafter.

Public Sector Legal Roles

Getting a legal role without any experience (even in public sector) is difficult and to be honest, I have yet to see a legal role in public sector that doesn't require you to have been called to the bar. What they do offer, though, is training for you to get called to the bar - this option is great because they tend to pay you full pay (you will be a legal officer and be able to rep the org in court). These job Ads will usually include a line which informs you that working exp with them counts towards the training requirements under the LPA. I've seen one for MOM in the past... but you'll still have to do part B.

I'm not going to be retained!

Worry less about retention rates and more about your abilities as a lawyer. Gain as much exposure as you can and learn as much as you can. My CV always had a list of cases i've assisted on and the contributions i've made in those cases. Its about how much you've done and how well you can market yourself.

I would even say that you're in a better position because you know for sure you won't be retained and can start looking for full time opportunities almost immediately after you start (well... give it 3 months). This means you won't be in a situation where your job search is dependent on when your employer decided to tell you if you will be retained.

Finally

Make a commitment and stick to it. You've already spent 4 years in law school. At this point, what is that one additional year?

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  #1732 (permalink)  
Old 18-10-2017, 08:58 PM
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Local grad
Frankly market is very bad.
I am just thinking ahead.
For these so called non practicing careering in public sector
If they do not need a practicing lawyer, should I go for part b and tc then?
Unfortunately, for most public service jobs would require you to be a qualified person with at least a few years of PQE. Even for legal counsel posts in ministries or statutory boards, they usually prefer candidates to be called to the bar.

Another option is applying to AGC as a DPP which doesn't require you to be called. But I heard from peers that AGC is on a hiring freeze due to the glut (confirmation needed). Apparently many graduates who could not secure a TC flocked to AGC.

How are your grades? AGC would require at least a 2.1.

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  #1733 (permalink)  
Old 18-10-2017, 09:58 PM
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Unfortunately, for most public service jobs would require you to be a qualified person with at least a few years of PQE. Even for legal counsel posts in ministries or statutory boards, they usually prefer candidates to be called to the bar.

Another option is applying to AGC as a DPP which doesn't require you to be called. But I heard from peers that AGC is on a hiring freeze due to the glut (confirmation needed). Apparently many graduates who could not secure a TC flocked to AGC.

How are your grades? AGC would require at least a 2.1.
I am on 2:2
It is difficult (more difficult) to get 2:1 compared to UK grads. Unfortunately that is the way my school marks.

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  #1734 (permalink)  
Old 18-10-2017, 09:59 PM
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Is getting called to the bar important?

Yes, getting called to the bar is important. Go on a job search website and look up in-house positions. Almost all will require you to have been called to the bar.

Sure if you start working now you can earn 3-4k a month, but your progression will be slow and it will honestly be extremely difficult to negotiate an increase in salary thereafter.

Public Sector Legal Roles

Getting a legal role without any experience (even in public sector) is difficult and to be honest, I have yet to see a legal role in public sector that doesn't require you to have been called to the bar. What they do offer, though, is training for you to get called to the bar - this option is great because they tend to pay you full pay (you will be a legal officer and be able to rep the org in court). These job Ads will usually include a line which informs you that working exp with them counts towards the training requirements under the LPA. I've seen one for MOM in the past... but you'll still have to do part B.

I'm not going to be retained!

Worry less about retention rates and more about your abilities as a lawyer. Gain as much exposure as you can and learn as much as you can. My CV always had a list of cases i've assisted on and the contributions i've made in those cases. Its about how much you've done and how well you can market yourself.

I would even say that you're in a better position because you know for sure you won't be retained and can start looking for full time opportunities almost immediately after you start (well... give it 3 months). This means you won't be in a situation where your job search is dependent on when your employer decided to tell you if you will be retained.

Finally

Make a commitment and stick to it. You've already spent 4 years in law school. At this point, what is that one additional year?
thank you forya encouraging words I will preserve
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  #1735 (permalink)  
Old 19-10-2017, 12:47 AM
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thank you forya encouraging words I will preserve
Come on..are you sure you're lawyer material? With such clarity of expression I am completely unsurprised that you will not be retained.
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  #1736 (permalink)  
Old 19-10-2017, 02:33 AM
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Hey guys, if I've done my TC and am currently doing Part B, when is the best time to apply for an Assoc position given that i should be getting monthly-called to the bar in April 2018? I would like to apply as a legal exec first with the view of being considered for assoc position once I get called.

I know there's really no best time.. but what would ya recommend I do? Thanks!


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  #1737 (permalink)  
Old 19-10-2017, 08:05 AM
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Come on..are you sure you're lawyer material? With such clarity of expression I am completely unsurprised that you will not be retained.
I was once told by a partner of a decently sized firm that so long as you speak/write marginally better english than an accused, you would be doing them a favour by representing them.

I never really believed him... until i saw subs written by a few senior practitioners...

You'd be surprised how many of these senior practitioners have such bad "clarity of expression".
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  #1738 (permalink)  
Old 19-10-2017, 08:17 AM
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I am on 2:2
It is difficult (more difficult) to get 2:1 compared to UK grads. Unfortunately that is the way my school marks.
It is easy to complain about how difficult it is to get 2.1 (however true that may be - to be clear, I am not disputing the truthfulness of this statement). Nevertheless, you are in a uni that constantly and regularly hosts law firms/career fairs/networking opportunities for you. Even better if you're from a certain local uni where there's even an "internship portal" and reserved internship seats with a certain govt department. Whatever your grades may be, the local unis give you many opportunities to build the connections you need to prove your worth (outside of academics). It is really up to you to make use of these opportunities.

All these resources are not readily available to overseas grads and if even UK grads for lower ranked "low-quality" unis can get decent offers, than there is really a need to take a good hard look at your own application/experiences.

My suggestion would be to concentrate on how to improve your application as opposed to feeling bitter about the grading system. I have seen 2.2 local grads get pretty decent offers from pretty decent firms.
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  #1739 (permalink)  
Old 19-10-2017, 09:28 AM
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Hey guys, if I've done my TC and am currently doing Part B, when is the best time to apply for an Assoc position given that i should be getting monthly-called to the bar in April 2018? I would like to apply as a legal exec first with the view of being considered for assoc position once I get called.

I know there's really no best time.. but what would ya recommend I do? Thanks!
I would recommend you contacting your supervisor for your TC to enquire on the availability of an associate position in the firm.
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  #1740 (permalink)  
Old 19-10-2017, 10:16 AM
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Hey guys, if I've done my TC and am currently doing Part B, when is the best time to apply for an Assoc position given that i should be getting monthly-called to the bar in April 2018? I would like to apply as a legal exec first with the view of being considered for assoc position once I get called.

I know there's really no best time.. but what would ya recommend I do? Thanks!
I would also recommend checking with your Part B lecturers. In my year, one of the lecturers asked and offered training/assoc positions in the even that we didn't already have offers.

We all did so didn't take him up on it.
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