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  #10501 (permalink)  
Old 31-03-2021, 08:44 AM
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Because you can work for Gunderson or Latham in Singapore and get that same salary.
The top 1% will get to work there. The next 4% will work in a US firm. The next 5% will work in a UK magic circle or other firm.

In all, roughly around 10% of Singaporean lawyers will work in an international firm. I'm not talking about those fake tie ups.

Objectively speaking, 1 out of 10 isn't good odds. you may think you're good or a very good lawyer, but it probably isn't good enough for the top 10 percentile. And the vast majority are average lawyers - that's why it's called an average.

Most of us lawyers think we're fairly bright and very hardworking. But firstly, the top among us are even brighter and work harder than you can fathom. And secondly, being smart and working hard in itself isn't even enough without the other X factors.

The reality for most of us is that we will be stuck practising law on mediocre salaries doing mediocre work. The stuff that even the big 4 law firms do in Singapore isn't at the cutting edge of litigation or finance

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  #10502 (permalink)  
Old 31-03-2021, 09:06 AM
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Disputes is an anomaly. Great hours. Great partners who leave you largely alone. Superstar juniors and senior associates who work very hard and technically brilliant. Superb team culture and great deals and rankings. Good progression to partnership too.
great hours, yet juniors work very hard?

means what sia?

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  #10503 (permalink)  
Old 31-03-2021, 09:28 AM
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The top 1% will get to work there. The next 4% will work in a US firm. The next 5% will work in a UK magic circle or other firm.

In all, roughly around 10% of Singaporean lawyers will work in an international firm. I'm not talking about those fake tie ups.

Objectively speaking, 1 out of 10 isn't good odds. you may think you're good or a very good lawyer, but it probably isn't good enough for the top 10 percentile. And the vast majority are average lawyers - that's why it's called an average.

Most of us lawyers think we're fairly bright and very hardworking. But firstly, the top among us are even brighter and work harder than you can fathom. And secondly, being smart and working hard in itself isn't even enough without the other X factors.

The reality for most of us is that we will be stuck practising law on mediocre salaries doing mediocre work. The stuff that even the big 4 law firms do in Singapore isn't at the cutting edge of litigation or finance
I'd advise all juniors to heed this person's advise. I agree 100%.
Have been in private practice for almost a decade and I will say that juniors who are more realistic with their expectations generally last longer in practice.

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  #10504 (permalink)  
Old 31-03-2021, 09:56 AM
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The top 1% will get to work there. The next 4% will work in a US firm. The next 5% will work in a UK magic circle or other firm.

In all, roughly around 10% of Singaporean lawyers will work in an international firm. I'm not talking about those fake tie ups.

Objectively speaking, 1 out of 10 isn't good odds. you may think you're good or a very good lawyer, but it probably isn't good enough for the top 10 percentile. And the vast majority are average lawyers - that's why it's called an average.

Most of us lawyers think we're fairly bright and very hardworking. But firstly, the top among us are even brighter and work harder than you can fathom. And secondly, being smart and working hard in itself isn't even enough without the other X factors.

The reality for most of us is that we will be stuck practising law on mediocre salaries doing mediocre work. The stuff that even the big 4 law firms do in Singapore isn't at the cutting edge of litigation or finance
Mostly true, but the 10% number is a reflection of the practice area and firm you are in rather than a general statistic.

For example, B4 lawyers in the M&A/financing/international arbi/R&I teams will EASILY transition to UK silver circle or better. You literally have recruiters messaging you nonstop on linkedin the moment you're a year past call. Of course, not all corp teams in B4 are born equal... some people here would know what I'm talking about, so this is not a uniform experience through B4
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  #10505 (permalink)  
Old 31-03-2021, 10:14 AM
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You got to admit it. Law is no longer as prestigious as it used to be. Now it's all about tech, tech and tech.
Indeed, gone are the days where a Chinatown sole proprietor practising community law can earn a sizeable income to live in landed and drive a continental car. Family law is besieged with severe undercutting. Some firms charge $2k+ inclusive of disbursements for contested divorces, there is no way other players can compete unless they go for huge volumes.

However, despite the tech boom in Singapore, there is a dearth of tech and patent lawyers. If any lawyer is smart enough, he/she will learn programming to take advantage of up and coming tech startups who need legal advice. It is a pity but many uppity law undergrads in universities think tech is beneath them and only for uncool nerds.
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  #10506 (permalink)  
Old 31-03-2021, 11:06 AM
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Meanwhile bankers making half a mil under 30
s://forums.salary.sg/income-jobs/11831-high-finance-thread-18.html
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  #10507 (permalink)  
Old 31-03-2021, 11:11 AM
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Hi - can I have some input from practising lawyers on whether Law in Singapore is a sunset industry? No trolls please. I'm considering study law but I'm concerned about prospects.

Also, how tough is it to find a job today? Are there too many lawyers fighting for too little jobs?
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  #10508 (permalink)  
Old 31-03-2021, 11:46 AM
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Hi - can I have some input from practising lawyers on whether Law in Singapore is a sunset industry? No trolls please. I'm considering study law but I'm concerned about prospects.

Also, how tough is it to find a job today? Are there too many lawyers fighting for too little jobs?
I'm in law practice for 1-2 years but this is purely my observations:

As a whole, law is not a sunset industry, but several "traditional" areas of law are. Family, real estate and PIMA/NIMA are sunset, with severe undercutting and gradual tightening of how much lawyers can charge their clients.

For corporate (non-litigation), it remains relevant but the pandemic accelerated the embracing of technology. And it is in trouble, because AI can draft simple SPAs, STAs, etc. Companies may dispense with engaging a lawyer for drafting, although they will still hire a lawyer in the event that the deal falls through and litigation is inevitable. I say it is "semi-sunset".

The areas of law that are booming, or poised to in the future, are tech and intellectual property. There aren't enough lawyers in these areas to take advantage of the tech boom in Singapore. Needless to say, it is not easy to be a lawyer in these fields as it requires expert knowledge in tech as well, and not many law undergrads know these.

For criminal law, there is still a future as Singaporeans are mostly middle-class now and willing to pay if it means avoiding custodial sentences. Also, with the government trying to control the internet and its expression, together with Singaporeans becoming more "woke", expect more cases to come up, like the smiley face incident.

Regarding toughness of finding a job or whether too many lawyers fighting for jobs, the answer is an absolute yes. So go pad your CV up when you are still in university. Forget about joining orientation groups or clubs/societies, those don't mean **** when applying for a job as lawyer. Instead, be more "anti-social" and spend more time getting more internships and building connections with senior lawyers. Anyway, you will realize that 99% of your friends are fair-weathered friends and they aren't going to be nice once you all compete for the same slice of the pie.
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  #10509 (permalink)  
Old 31-03-2021, 12:42 PM
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Indeed, gone are the days where a Chinatown sole proprietor practising community law can earn a sizeable income to live in landed and drive a continental car. Family law is besieged with severe undercutting. Some firms charge $2k+ inclusive of disbursements for contested divorces, there is no way other players can compete unless they go for huge volumes.

However, despite the tech boom in Singapore, there is a dearth of tech and patent lawyers. If any lawyer is smart enough, he/she will learn programming to take advantage of up and coming tech startups who need legal advice. It is a pity but many uppity law undergrads in universities think tech is beneath them and only for uncool nerds.
I'm still in law school but I've spoken to a few senior lawyers in B4 (over networking sessions) and they have all said that learning to code is not actually necessary for being a tech lawyer. Can someone give concrete examples of how learning programming would help in giving legal advice ?
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  #10510 (permalink)  
Old 31-03-2021, 12:44 PM
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anyone knows what happened to the supposed to be incoming nus law dean, why changed back to the previous one?
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