Career as Teacher

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Just sharing a thought here eh. The teaching profession used to have only 2 SEO positions in school. The P and VP were the only ones with that grade. The rest will be teachers with time based promotion and a fixed MI every year. Bonus was very much also shared based on ranks. Back then was GEO1A1, 1A2, 2A1 … etc. Over the years, the political leadership felt that there is a need to identify good and bad performers and EPMS came about. That’s was 2008.

Now if you think about it as a system point of view, you are simply taking the bonus from the “poorer performer” and gave it to the “better performer” There is almost no additional resources required but it makes the people in the system worked harder than they used to. It becomes a grinder of sort. It might make sense in the corporate world where costing and revenue are immediate on a year on year basis. We are talking about kids here. Can we be very sure what you do now has a big impact? What are the matrix involved in looking at success? What happen when a wayward child became someone 20 years later and attributed his or her success to the teacher 20 years ago? Will the teacher be rewarded then?

The next question is you have to ask yourself how much are you willing to give to get to top 20? I agree with one recent comment on sustainability and costing. At the end of the day, there is little control over promotion and PB grades since there is so much more

I am in the ranking panel and have seen questions like that pop up all the time. However, I too stand to be corrected 🙂

I just want to point out that the reason why the PB bonus was changed to this way is exactly because people complained that hard working teachers were not recognised for the work that they did when bonuses were meted out via the salary grade. It's truly ironic that we're now back at wanting equal annual bonuses for everyone.

I guarantee that if we reverted to the old way, you'd see a different group complaining about how they get paid the same as their lazy counterparts.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Sorry, but many young ones are no longer dumb enough to fall for such dangling carrots.

Some have already banded together to get out of the rat race by rejecting extra workload and having a collective agreement to feedback to their ROs that they are not looking for high grades or promotions. If their ROs are okay with such arrangements, the extra workload gets automatically redirected to GEO5s since they command a higher salary and are at a higher grade. Due to this, some GEO5 get C- or D for poor performance, or ultimately rage quit.

This is quite a good way to get rid of people coasting actually. Young officers can consider banding together to do this.

But if the young officers also quit (not that its bad for them, since they are young and still have many opportunities out there), its a lose-lose situation for the entire Ministry.

Lol prisoners dilemma. Do you trust your fellow teachers to hold true to this agreement when they're having their work review with their ROs? Imagine saying that young teachers are not naive!

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I just want to point out that the reason why the PB bonus was changed to this way is exactly because people complained that hard working teachers were not recognised for the work that they did when bonuses were meted out via the salary grade. It's truly ironic that we're now back at wanting equal annual bonuses for everyone.

I guarantee that if we reverted to the old way, you'd see a different group complaining about how they get paid the same as their lazy counterparts.

you're right, it's impossible to satisfy every single officer.

i think what one of the past posters mentioned about delegating workload in proportion to the subgrade is most pragmatic and fair. non-KP GEO3 and 4 should not be doing work at higher levels or quantities unless he or she asks for it or agrees to it.

not all young officers really want to chiong. for those who volunteer to chiong, great. otherwise just leave it at a capped workload.

eventually for those who take on workloads larger than their subgrade, give higher PB. those who are at the cap, get a grade C PB.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Correct. Many delulu people posting on forum here, thinking that a few years of good performance grades can result in promotion. Promotion has never worked that way in the past and definitely not in future, esp when CEP system is abolished. Officers can find themselves in the same grade for many years even though they have “good” grades because they may be deemed to be not suitable for demonstrating competencies of next grade. Also from HR and org-level point of view, upward movement eg promotion is not the only way to develop careers now.

Times are changing fuys, get used to the new era in the civil service and also MOE

When will they start to rotate the Lao-Jiao?
Wow are you sure CEP is going to be abolished? .

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Sorry, but many young ones are no longer dumb enough to fall for such dangling carrots.

Some have already banded together to get out of the rat race by rejecting extra workload and having a collective agreement to feedback to their ROs that they are not looking for high grades or promotions. If their ROs are okay with such arrangements, the extra workload gets automatically redirected to GEO5s since they command a higher salary and are at a higher grade. Due to this, some GEO5 get C- or D for poor performance, or ultimately rage quit.

This is quite a good way to get rid of people coasting actually. Young officers can consider banding together to do this.

But if the young officers also quit (not that its bad for them, since they are young and still have many opportunities out there), its a lose-lose situation for the entire Ministry.

Lose-lose?

Really?

In HQ's eyes, teachers are always 'in surplus'

The more teachers quitting, the better they fulfill their KPI of cutting headcount. Absolute win for them.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

When will they start to rotate the Lao-Jiao?
Wow are you sure CEP is going to be abolished? .

Yes, CEP is going to be abolished. It's true.

But

Leadership Potential (LP) will replace CEP

*winks

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Yes, CEP is going to be abolished. It's true.

But

Leadership Potential (LP) will replace CEP

*winks

May I ask what’s difference between LP and CEP?

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I just want to point out that the reason why the PB bonus was changed to this way is exactly because people complained that hard working teachers were not recognised for the work that they did when bonuses were meted out via the salary grade. It's truly ironic that we're now back at wanting equal annual bonuses for everyone.

I guarantee that if we reverted to the old way, you'd see a different group complaining about how they get paid the same as their lazy counterparts.

old way or current way should make way for a new transparent and less subjective way. does anyone care about marking load or PE teachers getting same pb as non-PE teachers? even tuition rates are different depending on levels.

I'm really not looking forward tomorrow. I feel at the rate I'm working I'm burning out. I'm basically managing a GEO 5 workload. I still have 3 years bond to clear. I can't imagine how some teachers could stay 20-35 over years in the service.

I'm considering to switch to other civil servant job or ministries. Don't even know if this is possible.

I want to do this for the sake of my health, mental wellbeing and my family.

Teaching job is no longer meaningful with all the superficial colleagues, kps and of course ranking.

Haiz

Originally Posted by Unregistered

old way or current way should make way for a new transparent and less subjective way. does anyone care about marking load or PE teachers getting same pb as non-PE teachers? even tuition rates are different depending on levels.

So PE, Art, Music teacher should be auto given low grades unless they do something truly exceptional? Maths and Science teachers should be given middle grades because their marking is relatively straightforward. English and Humanities teachers should by default given high grades because of qualitative marking and having to slog through essays.

JC teachers should be paid the most and given better grades than sec and pri school teachers because they do more cognitive work. How hard can it be to teach 1+1= 2 and the alphabet right?