Q: Big4 - Yearly salary increment

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Wow talk so much to defend a low paying low prospect unattractive sector that's the equivalent of white collar sweatshop. lmao

Bro. U defend so passionately cos you don't want to admit that you're stuck in a lowing pay dead-end path ah? The amount of defense u need to put up is proportionate to the cra ppiness of the sector.

You don't see people on other threads in salary sg writing essays to defend medicine law, tech or management consulting sectors. cos people instinctively know that these are sectors people actually wanna go into and worthwhile to get into.

very weird assumption for you to make about how much i make from a thread. the reason why it is important is because this thread is a point of reference for new incoming graduates and it is imperative to make sure people are properly informed as to what the career entails.

i could start a similar argument on whatever cs thread and tell you that all of you are just nonsense keyboard warriors who get thrown away by companies that 'valued you' at the first sign of trouble. the fact that you need to go to other threads to find some validation for your 'superiority' in degree chosen shows how hopeless you are. from the way you talk it already reveals the basis behind the generalization that singapore cs people are a crock of **** and the worst people to work with.

none of what is said here is about convincing you to take up a degree or whatever. you are the one coming in here with your preconceived perceptions of an industry that you clearly know nothing about.

the only reason why i am replying to you is that im bored and i feel like it.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

unprecedented number of people getting PIPs... some team members that are normal also got it. previously only people who chao keng or dunno how to use computer like a boomer only got it. anyway they're mostly gone, company not keen to remove the PIP.

this is good. pip means u got issues. its just that the threshold for determining what is a problematic person has risen. this can help to increase quality of people who remain.

this plus salary increase can do alot to improve the current situation

Originally Posted by Unregistered

u must be dreaming if you think com sci people all have full wfh, high pay, wlb and all the rosy beautiful things in the world. you dont want to rub shoulders with finance people then u go rub shoulders with offshore indian developers or support staff from pakistan. im sure that would be better

theres no such thing as quality accounting. accounting is rule based and objective driven. smaller companies do not reap much value from creative accounting or do not require any complex accounting, of course it is in their interest to outsource and adhere to your mentioned structure

try doing that for a conglomerate and your company will implode. A&R supports FP&A and internal costing. tell that to hedge funds and private equity where they are held accountable to stakeholders and need to 'manage' their profits/figure. get good at what you are doing and wherever you go, there will be money to be made. stop whining

Monkey spotted. Accounting is rule based. lol.. its not.. go back zoo.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Wow talk so much to defend a low paying low prospect unattractive sector that's the equivalent of white collar sweatshop. lmao

Bro. U defend so passionately cos you don't want to admit that you're stuck in a lowing pay dead-end path ah? The amount of defense u need to put up is proportionate to the cra ppiness of the sector.

You don't see people on other threads in salary sg writing essays to defend medicine law, tech or management consulting sectors. cos people instinctively know that these are sectors people actually wanna go into and worthwhile to get into.

Bro cant do anything meaningful other than
flip file>copy and paste>charge client at least 200k PA for 0 value service. Monkey work.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

because you are already coming in with your own preconceived notions about the accounting profession. a few issues you brought up:

1. More worth to xxx. Is worth of your career just based on graduating salary? Is any of your local law, computing, finance as glorified as you imagine it to be? Countless of chinatown lawyers getting overworked as well, SWE with the inherent reputation of working until bald on 997 schedules. Layoffs specifically in tech companies earlier this year. How do you then determine what is more worthwhile? If you really want the best bang for your buck skip education altogether and go be an entrepreneur. Why even do a degree? You are already making an assumption that somehow as a person who did well for As and maybe got straight As, they are 'forced' to choose this profession? Is everyone who does well in As suited to be a SWE? A lawyer? A doctor? What is worthwhile is up to the person themselves. If the person is looking for the fastest buck, obviously yes I agree with you accounting is not the way to go. But that is not representative of the bulk of people in the accounting profession. As a broad generalization, people in accounting are more interested in stability and predictability. Precisely why most of us will never consider a sales facing role or being an RM in a bank that obviously pays more. It is not just the pay that determines what is most 'worthwhile' or most suitable for you as a person. Creating this idea that it is more worthwhile to do other more 'profitable degrees' is also a shallow statement in itself. And your statements in itself is perpetuating the next generation of 'asian parents approved' career. A concept that perhaps your own generation hated to begin with.

2. Accounting is in fact that same as it ever has been. As I have already explained to you, the industry is developing. Accounting used to be truly just book keeping. AP, AR, GL, Revenue etc. Would not be crazy to call these pure data entry jobs with a touch of business understanding and hands on experience. But as I have also pointed out to you already, that is hardly the jobs/roles the bulk of people from accounting, or from big4 for the matter would ever go into. The entire finance sector has evolved from the 1980s and 1990s before all the public collapses and financial crises that we have been through. Regulation has evolved and the value add that the accounting sector has to provide has obviously also evolved.

Fresh out of grad you are already checking their work from a factual standpoint as well as a systems standpoint. And when you talk about certs like ACCA, these are public accounting certs. Accountants in companies do not even need to have a cert like that. Only those who stay in public accounting or are in higher positions in a company will require the cert. Building on this, almost none of us here will ever end up at a job title that ever says accountant. And that is where i have been trying to explain to you that finance =/= accounting. There are numerous finance functions: internal audit, fp&a, reporting, treasury, credit etc etc. Are these accounting jobs? No. But they are mostly dominated by people with big4 experience because such knowledge of the industry and subject matter is required to perform the role.

If anything, the applicability of an accounting experience is changing, and regardless of the market cycle. In the bull market people focus on fp&a, due diligence, SPAC audit, optimizations. In the bear market like now people hunker down to care about compliance, regulatory work, AML, internal controls etc. There is always a specialization you can move into. Which is why as a person like you not in the industry, presumably in uni still, giving such a broad statement that oh accounting is not the same it was based on whatever preconceived notions you already have is narrow minded af.

This is the same thing I said previously that people making these statements like accounting is dead, auditors will get replaced by AI etc etc have 0 understanding of what finance and accounting people actually do. If you have ever even tried to understand the nature/value add of the function you would realize that it is not replaceable and the value it offers only increases. And once and for all, book keeping =/= accounting.

what is this wall of text...

keyboard warrior

Can yall all stop detracting. This is a salary forum and we cant even get the accurate salary for each rank out...

Originally Posted by Unregistered

very weird assumption for you to make about how much i make from a thread. the reason why it is important is because this thread is a point of reference for new incoming graduates and it is imperative to make sure people are properly informed as to what the career entails.

i could start a similar argument on whatever cs thread and tell you that all of you are just nonsense keyboard warriors who get thrown away by companies that 'valued you' at the first sign of trouble. the fact that you need to go to other threads to find some validation for your 'superiority' in degree chosen shows how hopeless you are. from the way you talk it already reveals the basis behind the generalization that singapore cs people are a crock of **** and the worst people to work with.

none of what is said here is about convincing you to take up a degree or whatever. you are the one coming in here with your preconceived perceptions of an industry that you clearly know nothing about.

the only reason why i am replying to you is that im bored and i feel like it.

I don't know whether you are the long essay writer. But if you are, then you were responding to me. Again, I thank you for your lengthy, passionate defence of the industry. The thing is, it was never an attack. I simply wanted to know why people were staying.

Sadly, I was in fact an accountancy graduate from the 3 local unis. But my friends and I have all left. A number of us have left the industry entirely, while the rest are in peripheral roles such as IA, compliance etc. Call it what you will, but to the layman out there - internal audit, compliance (to an extent), FP&A and of course, group consolidation are all accounting roles. We are splitting hairs here.

It's just that my friends and I had a gathering recently, and we were somewhat bemused that we had all mostly left the industry. And that's why I was asking, did we miss something that you good folks did not?

We were also (somewhat) surprised that the IGP for accoutancy had fallen for all 3 local unis. It is what it is.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I don't know whether you are the long essay writer. But if you are, then you were responding to me. Again, I thank you for your lengthy, passionate defence of the industry. The thing is, it was never an attack. I simply wanted to know why people were staying.

Sadly, I was in fact an accountancy graduate from the 3 local unis. But my friends and I have all left. A number of us have left the industry entirely, while the rest are in peripheral roles such as IA, compliance etc. Call it what you will, but to the layman out there - internal audit, compliance (to an extent), FP&A and of course, group consolidation are all accounting roles. We are splitting hairs here.

It's just that my friends and I had a gathering recently, and we were somewhat bemused that we had all mostly left the industry. And that's why I was asking, did we miss something that you good folks did not?

We were also (somewhat) surprised that the IGP for accoutancy had fallen for all 3 local unis. It is what it is.

U nailed it exactly.

That guy who keeps writing those long essays upselling accounting has just drunk the Kool Aid. Don't really blame him because he has a vested interest in trying to defend the "honor" and "prestige" of his chosen path.

But his attempts to draw extra fine distinctions between IA, fp&a, external audit, treasury etc etc are all merely hair splitting.

Weekend he goes to his wife's house eat dinner with in-laws and try to explain to them that he works in fp&a, very important role, very intellectual role bla bla bla. To his father-in-law, accountant jiu shi accountant. plain and simple. lol.

At the end of the day, accountant = accountant. That's what the public sees. And more importantly, that's what the market pays.

If you're good, you will rise to be a CFO and rake in the $$. Don't need to talk/write so much rubbish long essays to preach to the choir.

In the meantime, get in line and join the army of ex-Big4 audit alumni vying for 1 of the better paying roles out there. No good? Then settle for a mediocre-paying accounting-related role like the vast majority of accounting-trained people. LOL

Yellow overhired...(but everyone overhired the past 2 years) wont be expecting a good bonus. Having a tough time trying to keep utilization high now

Originally Posted by Unregistered

this is good. pip means u got issues. its just that the threshold for determining what is a problematic person has risen. this can help to increase quality of people who remain.

this plus salary increase can do alot to improve the current situation

if only they PIPd toxic managers or partners...