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Q: Big4 - Yearly salary increment

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  #11471 (permalink)  
Old 10-09-2023, 02:49 AM
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Bro, thank you for your heartfelt comment and for arguing so passionately

But do you not agree? Accounting is not the same as before, from the 1980s and 1990s where ACCA reigned dominant??

Today, it might be more worthwhile for your kid who has 4As to just try an overseas scholarship, local law, computing or finance?

What’s wrong with accepting a fact
because you are already coming in with your own preconceived notions about the accounting profession. a few issues you brought up:

1. More worth to xxx. Is worth of your career just based on graduating salary? Is any of your local law, computing, finance as glorified as you imagine it to be? Countless of chinatown lawyers getting overworked as well, SWE with the inherent reputation of working until bald on 997 schedules. Layoffs specifically in tech companies earlier this year. How do you then determine what is more worthwhile? If you really want the best bang for your buck skip education altogether and go be an entrepreneur. Why even do a degree? You are already making an assumption that somehow as a person who did well for As and maybe got straight As, they are 'forced' to choose this profession? Is everyone who does well in As suited to be a SWE? A lawyer? A doctor? What is worthwhile is up to the person themselves. If the person is looking for the fastest buck, obviously yes I agree with you accounting is not the way to go. But that is not representative of the bulk of people in the accounting profession. As a broad generalization, people in accounting are more interested in stability and predictability. Precisely why most of us will never consider a sales facing role or being an RM in a bank that obviously pays more. It is not just the pay that determines what is most 'worthwhile' or most suitable for you as a person. Creating this idea that it is more worthwhile to do other more 'profitable degrees' is also a shallow statement in itself. And your statements in itself is perpetuating the next generation of 'asian parents approved' career. A concept that perhaps your own generation hated to begin with.

2. Accounting is in fact that same as it ever has been. As I have already explained to you, the industry is developing. Accounting used to be truly just book keeping. AP, AR, GL, Revenue etc. Would not be crazy to call these pure data entry jobs with a touch of business understanding and hands on experience. But as I have also pointed out to you already, that is hardly the jobs/roles the bulk of people from accounting, or from big4 for the matter would ever go into. The entire finance sector has evolved from the 1980s and 1990s before all the public collapses and financial crises that we have been through. Regulation has evolved and the value add that the accounting sector has to provide has obviously also evolved.

Fresh out of grad you are already checking their work from a factual standpoint as well as a systems standpoint. And when you talk about certs like ACCA, these are public accounting certs. Accountants in companies do not even need to have a cert like that. Only those who stay in public accounting or are in higher positions in a company will require the cert. Building on this, almost none of us here will ever end up at a job title that ever says accountant. And that is where i have been trying to explain to you that finance =/= accounting. There are numerous finance functions: internal audit, fp&a, reporting, treasury, credit etc etc. Are these accounting jobs? No. But they are mostly dominated by people with big4 experience because such knowledge of the industry and subject matter is required to perform the role.

If anything, the applicability of an accounting experience is changing, and regardless of the market cycle. In the bull market people focus on fp&a, due diligence, SPAC audit, optimizations. In the bear market like now people hunker down to care about compliance, regulatory work, AML, internal controls etc. There is always a specialization you can move into. Which is why as a person like you not in the industry, presumably in uni still, giving such a broad statement that oh accounting is not the same it was based on whatever preconceived notions you already have is narrow minded af.

This is the same thing I said previously that people making these statements like accounting is dead, auditors will get replaced by AI etc etc have 0 understanding of what finance and accounting people actually do. If you have ever even tried to understand the nature/value add of the function you would realize that it is not replaceable and the value it offers only increases. And once and for all, book keeping =/= accounting.

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  #11472 (permalink)  
Old 10-09-2023, 10:37 AM
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Bro, thank you for your heartfelt comment and for arguing so passionately

But do you not agree? Accounting is not the same as before, from the 1980s and 1990s where ACCA reigned dominant??

Today, it might be more worthwhile for your kid who has 4As to just try an overseas scholarship, local law, computing or finance?

What’s wrong with accepting a fact
kiasu ma, must be no 1 in everything. same as lawyers with their 7k starting pay keep going to newspapers saying they are underpaid while working same or even shorter hours than auditors. misery olympics

AP AR that got offshored never returns, while IT that gets offshored sometimes return to SG

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  #11473 (permalink)  
Old 10-09-2023, 10:43 AM
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because you are already coming in with your own preconceived notions about the accounting profession. a few issues you brought up:

1. More worth to xxx. Is worth of your career just based on graduating salary? Is any of your local law, computing, finance as glorified as you imagine it to be? Countless of chinatown lawyers getting overworked as well, SWE with the inherent reputation of working until bald on 997 schedules. Layoffs specifically in tech companies earlier this year. How do you then determine what is more worthwhile? If you really want the best bang for your buck skip education altogether and go be an entrepreneur. Why even do a degree? You are already making an assumption that somehow as a person who did well for As and maybe got straight As, they are 'forced' to choose this profession? Is everyone who does well in As suited to be a SWE? A lawyer? A doctor? What is worthwhile is up to the person themselves. If the person is looking for the fastest buck, obviously yes I agree with you accounting is not the way to go. But that is not representative of the bulk of people in the accounting profession. As a broad generalization, people in accounting are more interested in stability and predictability. Precisely why most of us will never consider a sales facing role or being an RM in a bank that obviously pays more. It is not just the pay that determines what is most 'worthwhile' or most suitable for you as a person. Creating this idea that it is more worthwhile to do other more 'profitable degrees' is also a shallow statement in itself. And your statements in itself is perpetuating the next generation of 'asian parents approved' career. A concept that perhaps your own generation hated to begin with.

2. Accounting is in fact that same as it ever has been. As I have already explained to you, the industry is developing. Accounting used to be truly just book keeping. AP, AR, GL, Revenue etc. Would not be crazy to call these pure data entry jobs with a touch of business understanding and hands on experience. But as I have also pointed out to you already, that is hardly the jobs/roles the bulk of people from accounting, or from big4 for the matter would ever go into. The entire finance sector has evolved from the 1980s and 1990s before all the public collapses and financial crises that we have been through. Regulation has evolved and the value add that the accounting sector has to provide has obviously also evolved.

Fresh out of grad you are already checking their work from a factual standpoint as well as a systems standpoint. And when you talk about certs like ACCA, these are public accounting certs. Accountants in companies do not even need to have a cert like that. Only those who stay in public accounting or are in higher positions in a company will require the cert. Building on this, almost none of us here will ever end up at a job title that ever says accountant. And that is where i have been trying to explain to you that finance =/= accounting. There are numerous finance functions: internal audit, fp&a, reporting, treasury, credit etc etc. Are these accounting jobs? No. But they are mostly dominated by people with big4 experience because such knowledge of the industry and subject matter is required to perform the role.

If anything, the applicability of an accounting experience is changing, and regardless of the market cycle. In the bull market people focus on fp&a, due diligence, SPAC audit, optimizations. In the bear market like now people hunker down to care about compliance, regulatory work, AML, internal controls etc. There is always a specialization you can move into. Which is why as a person like you not in the industry, presumably in uni still, giving such a broad statement that oh accounting is not the same it was based on whatever preconceived notions you already have is narrow minded af.

This is the same thing I said previously that people making these statements like accounting is dead, auditors will get replaced by AI etc etc have 0 understanding of what finance and accounting people actually do. If you have ever even tried to understand the nature/value add of the function you would realize that it is not replaceable and the value it offers only increases. And once and for all, book keeping =/= accounting.
accounting also lots of layoffs bro, just that accounting ppl got more PR skills than tech nerds who call it layoffs. we call it PIP or "performance related"/downsizing/encourage you to find a job because we are "restructuring" soon/bully you until you resign. must reduce liability ma, if layoff have to pay u severance.

anyway in all my interviews for compliance roles, they all want compliance background nia. what big 4 audit background, all not relevant. they rather u be diploma holder with some 1 week AML course cert. big 4 nowadays is a "nice to have" only but you MUST have relevant experience, this is the main thing why audit is not attractive here anymore. it's still attractive in countries where ppl still love ex-big 4 auditors

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  #11474 (permalink)  
Old 10-09-2023, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
because you are already coming in with your own preconceived notions about the accounting profession. a few issues you brought up:

1. More worth to xxx. Is worth of your career just based on graduating salary? Is any of your local law, computing, finance as glorified as you imagine it to be? Countless of chinatown lawyers getting overworked as well, SWE with the inherent reputation of working until bald on 997 schedules. Layoffs specifically in tech companies earlier this year. How do you then determine what is more worthwhile? If you really want the best bang for your buck skip education altogether and go be an entrepreneur. Why even do a degree? You are already making an assumption that somehow as a person who did well for As and maybe got straight As, they are 'forced' to choose this profession? Is everyone who does well in As suited to be a SWE? A lawyer? A doctor? What is worthwhile is up to the person themselves. If the person is looking for the fastest buck, obviously yes I agree with you accounting is not the way to go. But that is not representative of the bulk of people in the accounting profession. As a broad generalization, people in accounting are more interested in stability and predictability. Precisely why most of us will never consider a sales facing role or being an RM in a bank that obviously pays more. It is not just the pay that determines what is most 'worthwhile' or most suitable for you as a person. Creating this idea that it is more worthwhile to do other more 'profitable degrees' is also a shallow statement in itself. And your statements in itself is perpetuating the next generation of 'asian parents approved' career. A concept that perhaps your own generation hated to begin with.

2. Accounting is in fact that same as it ever has been. As I have already explained to you, the industry is developing. Accounting used to be truly just book keeping. AP, AR, GL, Revenue etc. Would not be crazy to call these pure data entry jobs with a touch of business understanding and hands on experience. But as I have also pointed out to you already, that is hardly the jobs/roles the bulk of people from accounting, or from big4 for the matter would ever go into. The entire finance sector has evolved from the 1980s and 1990s before all the public collapses and financial crises that we have been through. Regulation has evolved and the value add that the accounting sector has to provide has obviously also evolved.

Fresh out of grad you are already checking their work from a factual standpoint as well as a systems standpoint. And when you talk about certs like ACCA, these are public accounting certs. Accountants in companies do not even need to have a cert like that. Only those who stay in public accounting or are in higher positions in a company will require the cert. Building on this, almost none of us here will ever end up at a job title that ever says accountant. And that is where i have been trying to explain to you that finance =/= accounting. There are numerous finance functions: internal audit, fp&a, reporting, treasury, credit etc etc. Are these accounting jobs? No. But they are mostly dominated by people with big4 experience because such knowledge of the industry and subject matter is required to perform the role.

If anything, the applicability of an accounting experience is changing, and regardless of the market cycle. In the bull market people focus on fp&a, due diligence, SPAC audit, optimizations. In the bear market like now people hunker down to care about compliance, regulatory work, AML, internal controls etc. There is always a specialization you can move into. Which is why as a person like you not in the industry, presumably in uni still, giving such a broad statement that oh accounting is not the same it was based on whatever preconceived notions you already have is narrow minded af.

This is the same thing I said previously that people making these statements like accounting is dead, auditors will get replaced by AI etc etc have 0 understanding of what finance and accounting people actually do. If you have ever even tried to understand the nature/value add of the function you would realize that it is not replaceable and the value it offers only increases. And once and for all, book keeping =/= accounting.
yellow and green also had layoffs this year. audit yo
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  #11475 (permalink)  
Old 10-09-2023, 10:48 AM
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yellow and green also had layoffs this year. audit yo
not sg... be accurate
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  #11476 (permalink)  
Old 10-09-2023, 11:56 AM
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because you are already coming in with your own preconceived notions about the accounting profession. a few issues you brought up:

1. More worth to xxx. Is worth of your career just based on graduating salary? Is any of your local law, computing, finance as glorified as you imagine it to be? Countless of chinatown lawyers getting overworked as well, SWE with the inherent reputation of working until bald on 997 schedules. Layoffs specifically in tech companies earlier this year. How do you then determine what is more worthwhile? If you really want the best bang for your buck skip education altogether and go be an entrepreneur. Why even do a degree? You are already making an assumption that somehow as a person who did well for As and maybe got straight As, they are 'forced' to choose this profession? Is everyone who does well in As suited to be a SWE? A lawyer? A doctor? What is worthwhile is up to the person themselves. If the person is looking for the fastest buck, obviously yes I agree with you accounting is not the way to go. But that is not representative of the bulk of people in the accounting profession. As a broad generalization, people in accounting are more interested in stability and predictability. Precisely why most of us will never consider a sales facing role or being an RM in a bank that obviously pays more. It is not just the pay that determines what is most 'worthwhile' or most suitable for you as a person. Creating this idea that it is more worthwhile to do other more 'profitable degrees' is also a shallow statement in itself. And your statements in itself is perpetuating the next generation of 'asian parents approved' career. A concept that perhaps your own generation hated to begin with.

2. Accounting is in fact that same as it ever has been. As I have already explained to you, the industry is developing. Accounting used to be truly just book keeping. AP, AR, GL, Revenue etc. Would not be crazy to call these pure data entry jobs with a touch of business understanding and hands on experience. But as I have also pointed out to you already, that is hardly the jobs/roles the bulk of people from accounting, or from big4 for the matter would ever go into. The entire finance sector has evolved from the 1980s and 1990s before all the public collapses and financial crises that we have been through. Regulation has evolved and the value add that the accounting sector has to provide has obviously also evolved.

Fresh out of grad you are already checking their work from a factual standpoint as well as a systems standpoint. And when you talk about certs like ACCA, these are public accounting certs. Accountants in companies do not even need to have a cert like that. Only those who stay in public accounting or are in higher positions in a company will require the cert. Building on this, almost none of us here will ever end up at a job title that ever says accountant. And that is where i have been trying to explain to you that finance =/= accounting. There are numerous finance functions: internal audit, fp&a, reporting, treasury, credit etc etc. Are these accounting jobs? No. But they are mostly dominated by people with big4 experience because such knowledge of the industry and subject matter is required to perform the role.

If anything, the applicability of an accounting experience is changing, and regardless of the market cycle. In the bull market people focus on fp&a, due diligence, SPAC audit, optimizations. In the bear market like now people hunker down to care about compliance, regulatory work, AML, internal controls etc. There is always a specialization you can move into. Which is why as a person like you not in the industry, presumably in uni still, giving such a broad statement that oh accounting is not the same it was based on whatever preconceived notions you already have is narrow minded af.

This is the same thing I said previously that people making these statements like accounting is dead, auditors will get replaced by AI etc etc have 0 understanding of what finance and accounting people actually do. If you have ever even tried to understand the nature/value add of the function you would realize that it is not replaceable and the value it offers only increases. And once and for all, book keeping =/= accounting.
imagine typing an essay on a weekend to a bunch of nobodies

sinkie ego
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  #11477 (permalink)  
Old 10-09-2023, 01:01 PM
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yellow and green also had layoffs this year. audit yo
True for green for sharing answers will get layoff straight
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  #11478 (permalink)  
Old 10-09-2023, 05:22 PM
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not sg... be accurate
there are indirect lay offs such as PIP, as few people gotten already
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  #11479 (permalink)  
Old 10-09-2023, 05:56 PM
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there are indirect lay offs such as PIP, as few people gotten already
What happens to those with PIP afterwards? Still here ?
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  #11480 (permalink)  
Old 10-09-2023, 05:56 PM
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because you are already coming in with your own preconceived notions about the accounting profession. a few issues you brought up:

1. More worth to xxx. Is worth of your career just based on graduating salary? Is any of your local law, computing, finance as glorified as you imagine it to be? Countless of chinatown lawyers getting overworked as well, SWE with the inherent reputation of working until bald on 997 schedules. Layoffs specifically in tech companies earlier this year. How do you then determine what is more worthwhile? If you really want the best bang for your buck skip education altogether and go be an entrepreneur. Why even do a degree? You are already making an assumption that somehow as a person who did well for As and maybe got straight As, they are 'forced' to choose this profession? Is everyone who does well in As suited to be a SWE? A lawyer? A doctor? What is worthwhile is up to the person themselves. If the person is looking for the fastest buck, obviously yes I agree with you accounting is not the way to go. But that is not representative of the bulk of people in the accounting profession. As a broad generalization, people in accounting are more interested in stability and predictability. Precisely why most of us will never consider a sales facing role or being an RM in a bank that obviously pays more. It is not just the pay that determines what is most 'worthwhile' or most suitable for you as a person. Creating this idea that it is more worthwhile to do other more 'profitable degrees' is also a shallow statement in itself. And your statements in itself is perpetuating the next generation of 'asian parents approved' career. A concept that perhaps your own generation hated to begin with.

2. Accounting is in fact that same as it ever has been. As I have already explained to you, the industry is developing. Accounting used to be truly just book keeping. AP, AR, GL, Revenue etc. Would not be crazy to call these pure data entry jobs with a touch of business understanding and hands on experience. But as I have also pointed out to you already, that is hardly the jobs/roles the bulk of people from accounting, or from big4 for the matter would ever go into. The entire finance sector has evolved from the 1980s and 1990s before all the public collapses and financial crises that we have been through. Regulation has evolved and the value add that the accounting sector has to provide has obviously also evolved.

Fresh out of grad you are already checking their work from a factual standpoint as well as a systems standpoint. And when you talk about certs like ACCA, these are public accounting certs. Accountants in companies do not even need to have a cert like that. Only those who stay in public accounting or are in higher positions in a company will require the cert. Building on this, almost none of us here will ever end up at a job title that ever says accountant. And that is where i have been trying to explain to you that finance =/= accounting. There are numerous finance functions: internal audit, fp&a, reporting, treasury, credit etc etc. Are these accounting jobs? No. But they are mostly dominated by people with big4 experience because such knowledge of the industry and subject matter is required to perform the role.

If anything, the applicability of an accounting experience is changing, and regardless of the market cycle. In the bull market people focus on fp&a, due diligence, SPAC audit, optimizations. In the bear market like now people hunker down to care about compliance, regulatory work, AML, internal controls etc. There is always a specialization you can move into. Which is why as a person like you not in the industry, presumably in uni still, giving such a broad statement that oh accounting is not the same it was based on whatever preconceived notions you already have is narrow minded af.

This is the same thing I said previously that people making these statements like accounting is dead, auditors will get replaced by AI etc etc have 0 understanding of what finance and accounting people actually do. If you have ever even tried to understand the nature/value add of the function you would realize that it is not replaceable and the value it offers only increases. And once and for all, book keeping =/= accounting.
Wow talk so much to defend a low paying low prospect unattractive sector that's the equivalent of white collar sweatshop. lmao

Bro. U defend so passionately cos you don't want to admit that you're stuck in a lowing pay dead-end path ah? The amount of defense u need to put up is proportionate to the cra ppiness of the sector.

You don't see people on other threads in salary sg writing essays to defend medicine law, tech or management consulting sectors. cos people instinctively know that these are sectors people actually wanna go into and worthwhile to get into.
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