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How much are you earning per annum?

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  #2871 (permalink)  
Old 19-09-2013, 01:55 PM
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Better for you to rent a condo now than buy now.
See the article below.

But you cannot live in public housing if you are among those in certain high end social circles. So, just rent a small condo and save.



Falling Netherlands house prices leave owners stuck

Rotterdam, BBC News - 15 August 2013


Maureen Wachtels is trying to relax by making a Victoria sponge in her small but pristine central Rotterdam flat.

For a few moments, the whole process of sifting, mixing and baking helps take her mind off her personal plight.

Not only has she lost a well-paid and enjoyable job because of a life-threatening illness, she is also one of about a million Dutch people who suddenly find themselves in negative equity.

Maureen needs to move to sheltered accommodation as soon as possible. Yet she has only had one offer for her flat, way short of the 200,000 euros that she paid just two years ago.

But this is not just a story of over-optimistic lenders who tempted the Dutch to pile into property in the mistaken assumption that it would continue to rise in value.

The housing dam has broken. Holland is sitting on some 650bn euros in mortgage loans, with many properties worth 25% less than they were before the financial crisis.

No other EU consumers are as deeply in debt. The bursting of the Netherlands real estate bubble is now on a scale only previously seen in the United States and Spain.

'We can't sell'

Worst of all, it is endangering banks and jobs - stalling the longed-for recovery that is starting to emerge in neighbouring north European countries.

And all this in a country that until recently was seen as an exemplary economy - one that was quick to criticise others in Europe for not living within their means. The irony is not lost on Dutch citizens.

What remains one of the most open and competitive countries in the eurozone finds itself busting EU deficit limits and having to rapidly impose painful state austerity measures on its people against the clock.

For Maureen Wachtels, it is a surprising turn of events because she thought she was being frugal.

When she was in the market to buy, she borrowed some 200,000 euros, but was told she could borrow almost 500,000 euros - and many did just that.

"We were all forced to buy because at the time there didn't seem to be any property to rent. Now we are stuck with houses we can't sell," she says.

"I never expected that in just two years my asking price would come down from over 200,000 euros to 179,000.

"All I have is an offer for 153,000 euros which I have sent to the bank - but they have not responded."

She has advised her children to decline their inheritance on her death - because otherwise they could be stuck with her unexpected debts which will total some 35,000 euros.

'You can't move'

For some, the Dutch experience provides an economic lesson of the risks for a prosperous economy caught up in a post-bubble crunch when it has ceded control of its monetary policy, interest rates and currency.

One man who has closely followed the Dutch housing market is Maarten van Wijk, an economic specialist for the Algemeen Dagblad newspaper.

"If you have a house worth 150,000 euros, but it has a mortgage of 200,000 this has a large psychological effect. You can't move, you just have to struggle to pay down the mortgage as fast as possible.

"That is money you can't spend in the economy. It has also come as a surprise to most people.

"If you went to a dinner party before the crisis and told people you were renting a house, people would probably consider you financially backward.

"It was received wisdom that house prices would always go up."

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  #2872 (permalink)  
Old 19-09-2013, 04:07 PM
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I have lived in a condo all my life since I was born. Now I have accumulated enough savings to buy my own condo. My wife and I are excited as we will move from my parents old condo to a brand new one. The new condos look more classy than the old ones. From experience, living in a condo is very satisfying and a privilege.

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  #2873 (permalink)  
Old 19-09-2013, 04:28 PM
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Condo v good meh, I live on a ground floor unit of a condo and my SAF new balance PT shoes which I put outside my house kenna stolen.

Every once in a while someone will pangsai in the pool and it will have to be closed. Just last Sat I saw my neighbour from China let his grandson squat and pangsai in the middle of a grass patch in the common grounds.

And the condo management fees go up and up and up every year.

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  #2874 (permalink)  
Old 19-09-2013, 05:09 PM
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Why you so unlucky?
I never had such things.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Condo v good meh, I live on a ground floor unit of a condo and my SAF new balance PT shoes which I put outside my house kenna stolen.

Every once in a while someone will pangsai in the pool and it will have to be closed. Just last Sat I saw my neighbour from China let his grandson squat and pangsai in the middle of a grass patch in the common grounds.

And the condo management fees go up and up and up every year.
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  #2875 (permalink)  
Old 19-09-2013, 05:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
You may not want to be seen staying in a HDB, esp iif you have high class friends. The address you have in your mail is very important. You can only understand this if you are in this social circle. I will rent a condo any time to be accepted to be in this circle.
You see, that's the problem with people nowadays, especially the young ones. They succumb to peer pressure easily.

Why bother about how others think or judge you? Do you need other people's comment to make you feel good about yourself?

C'mon, only you know yourself inside out.

I have seen people living on a shoestring budget cos 50% of their take home went to service their housing loans, 25% went to service their car loan. They couldn't retire because they need the money to service their loans.

They missed the growing up years of their children, missed their birthday parties, missed their graduation ceremonies, missed their performance. All because they need to work to provide a living which they cannot afford comfortably. And when they are finally there, they realised how much of their life they have missed out.

Sometimes leading a simple life will make yourself happy.

I'm not saying you shouldn't live in private properties and drive conti cars. BUT do live within your means. Don't buy that conti on impulse, thinking that your salary will increase next year or you are expecting a big bonus etc. Buy only when you can afford it now and then.

Live within your means and be comfortable.
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  #2876 (permalink)  
Old 19-09-2013, 06:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
You see, that's the problem with people nowadays, especially the young ones. They succumb to peer pressure easily.

Why bother about how others think or judge you? Do you need other people's comment to make you feel good about yourself?

C'mon, only you know yourself inside out.

I have seen people living on a shoestring budget cos 50% of their take home went to service their housing loans, 25% went to service their car loan. They couldn't retire because they need the money to service their loans.

They missed the growing up years of their children, missed their birthday parties, missed their graduation ceremonies, missed their performance. All because they need to work to provide a living which they cannot afford comfortably. And when they are finally there, they realised how much of their life they have missed out.

Sometimes leading a simple life will make yourself happy.

I'm not saying you shouldn't live in private properties and drive conti cars. BUT do live within your means. Don't buy that conti on impulse, thinking that your salary will increase next year or you are expecting a big bonus etc. Buy only when you can afford it now and then.

Live within your means and be comfortable.
Reminds me of my colleague who is making 6k monthly and staying in a condo at Bishan they bought for $1.4mil and driving nice MPV. Everyday kana -f- by boss left right centre and humiliate and abused verbally in front of everyone, still end up LLST dun dare to quit because husband alone cannot keep up with the instalments.
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  #2877 (permalink)  
Old 19-09-2013, 09:10 PM
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Like it or not, as long as you live in a community or society, people's opinion of you matters. And it matters a lot when it comes to getting a job, getting promotion, getting a life partner etc.

You can tell yourself: "No, I dont care how others perceive or think of me. I dont have to live by their standards" etc.., but you cannot control what they think of you. And what they think and how they perceive you will be what guide their actions concerning you.

If you want to get ahead, if you want to fit in, into the larger society you have to conform.

Agreed that it is however foolish to live beyond your means just to project a certain image because the pretense will show and that's worse than showing your true self to them. They can choose to not include you into their fold, but at least they cannot accuse you of putting up a false front.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
You see, that's the problem with people nowadays, especially the young ones. They succumb to peer pressure easily.

Why bother about how others think or judge you? Do you need other people's comment to make you feel good about yourself?

C'mon, only you know yourself inside out.

I have seen people living on a shoestring budget cos 50% of their take home went to service their housing loans, 25% went to service their car loan. They couldn't retire because they need the money to service their loans.

They missed the growing up years of their children, missed their birthday parties, missed their graduation ceremonies, missed their performance. All because they need to work to provide a living which they cannot afford comfortably. And when they are finally there, they realised how much of their life they have missed out.

Sometimes leading a simple life will make yourself happy.

I'm not saying you shouldn't live in private properties and drive conti cars. BUT do live within your means. Don't buy that conti on impulse, thinking that your salary will increase next year or you are expecting a big bonus etc. Buy only when you can afford it now and then.

Live within your means and be comfortable.
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  #2878 (permalink)  
Old 19-09-2013, 10:53 PM
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This is very true. My wife comes from a very rich family, whereas I come from the HDB heartlands. I thought marrying into a rich family is good, but it seems otherwise. My parents in law wanted us to buy a D9 condo but we can only afford a Jurong condo. Even though we both earn quite well, we simply can't afford a $3m mortgage. My in laws didn't understand and didn't want to help. At last, I didn't care and just bought the Jurong condo. My in laare were not happy but I didn't care as it is my money not theirs. My wife and I enjoy our Jurong condo over the past two years, we kept talking to my in laws about the Jurong Lake District plan and how prices will surely go up. True enough, my condo price went up whereas the D9 condo prices went down. Now my in laws say I'm very smart son in law! LOL.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Like it or not, as long as you live in a community or society, people's opinion of you matters. And it matters a lot when it comes to getting a job, getting promotion, getting a life partner etc.

You can tell yourself: "No, I dont care how others perceive or think of me. I dont have to live by their standards" etc.., but you cannot control what they think of you. And what they think and how they perceive you will be what guide their actions concerning you.

If you want to get ahead, if you want to fit in, into the larger society you have to conform.

Agreed that it is however foolish to live beyond your means just to project a certain image because the pretense will show and that's worse than showing your true self to them. They can choose to not include you into their fold, but at least they cannot accuse you of putting up a false front.
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  #2879 (permalink)  
Old 20-09-2013, 03:17 AM
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32 year old male

Born into poverty

Graduated with two degrees in 2008

1M SGD condo (only 1 year into loan)

2008: 62K (base salary excluding bonus)
2013: 180K (base salary excluding bonus)
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  #2880 (permalink)  
Old 20-09-2013, 08:35 AM
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46, annual salary $53k. Wife, 35, annual salary $36k.
We are a poor family, living in a 3 room BTO flat.
Any advice how can I earn more? Some people say become property agent.
Is this good? Or shall I just stay in my current boring but stable job?
I only have poly diploma.
For those who are earning $250k, how did you do it?
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