Lawyer Salary

Originally Posted by Unregistered

"My gut feel" says it all. Who's the "we"?
You do know that it is not really that difficult to get into programmes similar to Cambridge LLM if you have a first from a decent university right? The added value of doing a masters immediately post llb is almost negligible unless you are aiming for academia - and you will be wasting one year of your PQE.

Truth is every partner/recruiter/firm will have different standards and preferences when it comes to the candidates. Some place greater emphasis on academics and some care more about fit and attitude, etc. Undeniably, there are some schools which would rank higher than than others. Further, a first from a decent university would likely give your cv a greater chance of being noticed and then shortlisted for interviews. However, when it comes to retention, it is more about your work performance, fit and attitude. As you progress in your legal career, your results matter less and less.

Next question you would probably ask is what is a "decent" university? It again depends on the people reading your cv and doing the recruitment. If you are applying to an international firm with foreign graduate recruitment, SMU is likely going to be ranked the same as any other Russell group university. As another example, if the partner reading your cv went to the same university as you, chances are you will have a higher chance of being noticed and shortlisted.

Times are tough, whichever school you are in, work hard to get good results, get internship experience, do your best for the internships and hope for the best.

On the point of retention, may I also add that the chance of being hired also depends a lot on whether the firm has capacity to take you in in the first place?

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Lol please don't pretend to be from CC. You don't even know what the trainee pay is. Also, there are many non-firsts and non-summas from NUS and SMU. Cheers.

Lol. It's all too easy to dig a hole in the sand and imagine that everyone around you is in the same rut you are in. Like it or not, I am from CC. Last week, I sat in Conference Rooms 25.6 and 25.7 watching a group of 8 interns deliver a client pitch. All of them were Firsts - no exceptions. Of these 8 hopefuls, 4-5 will eventually be selected to come on board as trainees.

Yes, I don't know the exact trainee pay scale because I didn't come in as a trainee. What I do know is that as a 6 PQE, I am paid slightly over S$20,000 per month. I lateralled in after 6 gruelling years of practice in a Big4 sweatshop. I personally am not a First, and I'm not saying everyone here is a First. Most of us here were grunts who were poached from Big4s (specifically A&G) during CC's massive expansion drive. If you think I'm lying because these figures seem too good to be true, you're just another dumb ostrich in self-denial.

What I AM saying is that to come in here as a Trainee on a TC, you bloody well have to be a First. And a damned good one at that, because Firsts are a dime a dozen, and there are only 4-5 places a year. It's the basic economic principles of supply and demand. If you think it's easy getting a TC here, go on deluding yourself. Lol, indeed.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Lol. It's all too easy to dig a hole in the sand and imagine that everyone around you is in the same rut you are in. Like it or not, I am from CC. Last week, I sat in Conference Rooms 25.6 and 25.7 watching a group of 8 interns deliver a client pitch. All of them were Firsts - no exceptions. Of these 8 hopefuls, 4-5 will eventually be selected to come on board as trainees.

Yes, I don't know the exact trainee pay scale because I didn't come in as a trainee. What I do know is that as a 6 PQE, I am paid slightly over S$20,000 per month. I lateralled in after 6 gruelling years of practice in a Big4 sweatshop. I personally am not a First, and I'm not saying everyone here is a First. Most of us here were grunts who were poached from Big4s (specifically A&G) during CC's massive expansion drive. If you think I'm lying because these figures seem too good to be true, you're just another dumb ostrich in self-denial.

What I AM saying is that to come in here as a Trainee on a TC, you bloody well have to be a First. And a damned good one at that, because Firsts are a dime a dozen, and there are only 4-5 places a year. It's the basic economic principles of supply and demand. If you think it's easy getting a TC here, go on deluding yourself. Lol, indeed.

I don't think anyone here is saying that getting a TC at CC is easy. Truth is getting a TC nowadays is difficult, so it goes without saying that getting arguably the best TC available to fresh graduates in Singapore would be close to impossible without top notch credentials. That said, no need to respond to a simple question with such arrogance. It may well be that the poster is top of his class and is able to avail himself to the fantastic choice of JLC vs a CC TC.

To get back to the point of this thread - SG lawyer at a US firm here. Happy to help juniors if they have any questions.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I don't think anyone here is saying that getting a TC at CC is easy. Truth is getting a TC nowadays is difficult, so it goes without saying that getting arguably the best TC available to fresh graduates in Singapore would be close to impossible without top notch credentials. That said, no need to respond to a simple question with such arrogance. It may well be that the poster is top of his class and is able to avail himself to the fantastic choice of JLC vs a CC TC.

To get back to the point of this thread - SG lawyer at a US firm here. Happy to help juniors if they have any questions.

Hi, thanks for offering. UK trainee at MC firm looking to lateral back to asia in the long run.

Are the US firms in SG boxed into certain practice areas? (Browsing through skaddden, ropes, shearman, Sidley etc.) Which do you think will be hot a few years down the road?

Also, do you get the NY level pay or is it cut down? I've heard Latham SG/Russia? (lmao) didn't get the NY 180K pay rise that other jurisdictions (incl. Ldn, HK) did.

Finally, any chance of laterals getting COLA? (even if native, thanks).

Hi,

I'm a second year associate in a local mid sized firm.

I've heard that even though international firms pay high salaries to associates, they do not promote people to partnership (or even counsel) easily. How true is this - and if it is, what does a long term career in an intl firm look like?

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Hi,

I'm a second year associate in a local mid sized firm.

I've heard that even though international firms pay high salaries to associates, they do not promote people to partnership (or even counsel) easily. How true is this - and if it is, what does a long term career in an intl firm look like?

That's what the local skinflint partners will tell you to prevent their precious associates from jumping to international firms.

It is probably just as difficult to become an equity partner in a Big4 here. And BTW, most intl firms don't bother with that make-believe rank called "salaried partner", which is like the equivalent of a Senior LTC in the Army. For them, its senior associate and straight to (equity) partner, if you can get made up.

No need to think so much about partnership prospects. I bet you would give half your arm to be offered an international firm. Anw slog it out a few years and all the local firms will be clamouring to have you back.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Lol. It's all too easy to dig a hole in the sand and imagine that everyone around you is in the same rut you are in. Like it or not, I am from CC. Last week, I sat in Conference Rooms 25.6 and 25.7 watching a group of 8 interns deliver a client pitch. All of them were Firsts - no exceptions. Of these 8 hopefuls, 4-5 will eventually be selected to come on board as trainees.

Yes, I don't know the exact trainee pay scale because I didn't come in as a trainee. What I do know is that as a 6 PQE, I am paid slightly over S$20,000 per month. I lateralled in after 6 gruelling years of practice in a Big4 sweatshop. I personally am not a First, and I'm not saying everyone here is a First. Most of us here were grunts who were poached from Big4s (specifically A&G) during CC's massive expansion drive. If you think I'm lying because these figures seem too good to be true, you're just another dumb ostrich in self-denial.

What I AM saying is that to come in here as a Trainee on a TC, you bloody well have to be a First. And a damned good one at that, because Firsts are a dime a dozen, and there are only 4-5 places a year. It's the basic economic principles of supply and demand. If you think it's easy getting a TC here, go on deluding yourself. Lol, indeed.

First time poster here for the avoidance of doubt.

Calm your titties, the majority of people on this thread are STUDENTS. Your condescension, salary and big ego to match should have no place if you know who the audience is here.

Besides, just to play you at your own game, you do know that you M&A/finance advisory lawyers are just here to cover our backs right? I'm in a bulge bracket investment banking role (general IBD coverage) in Singapore and we only call on you guys when the client insists or compliance breaks our backs about it. And what's the big deal about 20k 6PQE? My associate earns more than that excluding bonus and perks (and he's 4 years out of school)

Also, this reminds me. A couple of weeks ago one of you guys (CC, A&O, LL, FF - deliberately being vague for anonymity) sent a couple of EQUITY partners (APAC-head level) to our office to give us a presentation on 'Asia anti-trust laws'. Tbh 90% of the bankers in the room couldn't give a crap about any of this - all we wanted was to get back to finishing up our work so we could leave the office before midnight that day.

So know your place and stop being such a dick - we were all students once. And go ahead, try saying I'm not in BB front-office IBD - happy to oblige with non identifiable proof if I ever have the time or inclination to do so

Originally Posted by Unregistered

First time poster here for the avoidance of doubt.

Calm your titties, the majority of people on this thread are STUDENTS. Your condescension, salary and big ego to match should have no place if you know who the audience is here.

Besides, just to play you at your own game, you do know that you M&A/finance advisory lawyers are just here to cover our backs right? I'm in a bulge bracket investment banking role (general IBD coverage) in Singapore and we only call on you guys when the client insists or compliance breaks our backs about it. And what's the big deal about 20k 6PQE? My associate earns more than that excluding bonus and perks (and he's 4 years out of school)

Also, this reminds me. A couple of weeks ago one of you guys (CC, A&O, LL, FF - deliberately being vague for anonymity) sent a couple of EQUITY partners (APAC-head level) to our office to give us a presentation on 'Asia anti-trust laws'. Tbh 90% of the bankers in the room couldn't give a crap about any of this - all we wanted was to get back to finishing up our work so we could leave the office before midnight that day.

So know your place and stop being such a dick - we were all students once. And go ahead, try saying I'm not in BB front-office IBD - happy to oblige with non identifiable proof if I ever have the time or inclination to do so

I doubt you're really in IBD. You use a lot of parentheses and speak like a lawyer, i.e. obnoxiously (for the avoidance of doubt (pun intended)).

I know, because it takes one to know one...

Originally Posted by Unregistered

First time poster here for the avoidance of doubt.

Calm your titties, the majority of people on this thread are STUDENTS. Your condescension, salary and big ego to match should have no place if you know who the audience is here.

Besides, just to play you at your own game, you do know that you M&A/finance advisory lawyers are just here to cover our backs right? I'm in a bulge bracket investment banking role (general IBD coverage) in Singapore and we only call on you guys when the client insists or compliance breaks our backs about it. And what's the big deal about 20k 6PQE? My associate earns more than that excluding bonus and perks (and he's 4 years out of school)

Also, this reminds me. A couple of weeks ago one of you guys (CC, A&O, LL, FF - deliberately being vague for anonymity) sent a couple of EQUITY partners (APAC-head level) to our office to give us a presentation on 'Asia anti-trust laws'. Tbh 90% of the bankers in the room couldn't give a crap about any of this - all we wanted was to get back to finishing up our work so we could leave the office before midnight that day.

So know your place and stop being such a dick - we were all students once. And go ahead, try saying I'm not in BB front-office IBD - happy to oblige with non identifiable proof if I ever have the time or inclination to do so

Lol. "for the avoidance of doubt."?! Seriously? The conspicuous use of parentheses all over your post is also very telling. Obviously a failed lawyer (or worse, a lawyer wannabe) who's terrible at covering his/her tracks. Absolutely hilarious. Took your meds yet?

Originally Posted by Unregistered

That's what the local skinflint partners will tell you to prevent their precious associates from jumping to international firms.

It is probably just as difficult to become an equity partner in a Big4 here. And BTW, most intl firms don't bother with that make-believe rank called "salaried partner", which is like the equivalent of a Senior LTC in the Army. For them, its senior associate and straight to (equity) partner, if you can get made up.

No need to think so much about partnership prospects. I bet you would give half your arm to be offered an international firm. Anw slog it out a few years and all the local firms will be clamouring to have you back.

International firms do have salaried partners. And one tier below that, they have Counsel.