Lawyer Salary

I agree.

The next wave is on international arbitration and cross border deals whether you are in disputes or corporate.

Firms will want candidates from a well branded school with an international focus. Some people just diss this off by saying that Singapore has no demand for such an area but these people tend to only see what's in front of them and not beyond.

I guess if international work is not your cup of tea, there is always criminal and family law?

these areas in shortage of lawyers that's why there is a third law school right?

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Those doing law as second degree from Smu Suss Jd are just buying a law degree.

Why spend $100000 for piece of paper when nobody recognize these schools outside singapore

I am saying this cus job market is bad in singapore and they cannot go elsewhere

employers prefer nus graduates because the curriculum is way more vigorous

nus glb = world class, top in asia
smu jd = can't get in nus but still want a law degree so paid for one
sim jd = what's that?

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I agree.

The next wave is on international arbitration and cross border deals whether you are in disputes or corporate.

Firms will want candidates from a well branded school with an international focus. Some people just diss this off by saying that Singapore has no demand for such an area but these people tend to only see what's in front of them and not beyond.

With all this talk about "well branded" schools can anyone give an insight into how international firms and the big 4 "rank" the approved universities?

I assume it is something like this?
1a. Yale, Harvard (both post-grad)
1b. NYU (post-grad), Oxford, Cambridge
2a. NUS, LSE, UCL
2b. SMU, Uni Mel (post-grad)
3. Remaining UK schools, Monash, Sydney
4. Remaining Australian schools
5. New Zealand

Originally Posted by Unregistered

With all this talk about "well branded" schools can anyone give an insight into how international firms and the big 4 "rank" the approved universities?

I assume it is something like this?
1a. Yale, Harvard (both post-grad)
1b. NYU (post-grad), Oxford, Cambridge
2a. NUS, LSE, UCL
2b. SMU, Uni Mel (post-grad)
3. Remaining UK schools, Monash, Sydney
4. Remaining Australian schools
5. New Zealand

If I may add my inputs, let's talk about what most singaporeans have done and then rank the schools accordingly.
With the exception of a very select few that have gone into academia, with a NUS LLB and go on to Yale to further their studies with a JSM and JSD, etc, most Singaporeans would traditionally have come from NUS/SMU for their undergrad LL.B.
My gut feel is that we view it this way among recruitment partners:
(1) the best are people with a LL.B (first class) from any law school (but sg qualified) and they go on to do a LL.M (or BCL) from either Cambridge, Harvard and Oxford. Those are the best. Of course if they have a PhD to supplement, even better. But chances are people with PhD go on to become academics.
(2) next, are people with BA law from Oxbridge. A BA law from oxbridge at high 2:1 is roughly equivalent to a NUS weak first class (more than 5% but below 10% of cohort) or a very strong SMU magna. A first from Oxbridge is in a league of its own and potentially equal in status to a strong first class or very high summa from SMU (more comparable are those with the double degrees rather than single degree).
(3) next are the people with strong NUS 2:1 or SMU magna. These are equivalent to a UCL/LSE/Durham first class. A mid 2:1 from NUS / SMU cum laude would be equivalent to all other first class on the list of scheduled universities (UK as well as Australia).
(4) NUS weak 2:1 or 2:2 LL.B or SMU (lower than cum laude) would be equivalent to all 2:1 LL.B from the list of scheduled universities (UK as well as Australia). A first class from the list of omitted universities would belong here.
(5) any 2:2 LL.B or lower from the list of scheduled universities / 2:1 LL.B from the list of omitted universities.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Hi all,

I am a year 2 law student looking at options. Is it better to go to CC or JLC? Seems like international work is the way to go now?

Here's a tray of eggs. How many chickens have you got?

Please be realistic. We take like 5 new trainees a year? This number includes Firsts from NUS, SMU, OxCam, Harvard, Yale and a crapload of firsts from leading universities all over the globe. You're a second year NUS student. Unless you're at the top of the Dean's list and have a surefire way of keeping your ass there for the next 3 years, you may have to accept the near certainty that a CC TC is just not going to happen.

Sorry to dampen your hopes, but that $10k trainee paycheck is not going to come easy. If you really want to come in, you stand a far better chance "lateralling in" after a few years in Big4 practice.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

How much better is the pay?

Silver circle - approx 20-30% better
Magic circle - approx 60-70% better
White shoe - 80-100% better

It's quite significant.

This is ********.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

If I may add my inputs, let's talk about what most singaporeans have done and then rank the schools accordingly.
With the exception of a very select few that have gone into academia, with a NUS LLB and go on to Yale to further their studies with a JSM and JSD, etc, most Singaporeans would traditionally have come from NUS/SMU for their undergrad LL.B.
My gut feel is that we view it this way among recruitment partners:
(1) the best are people with a LL.B (first class) from any law school (but sg qualified) and they go on to do a LL.M (or BCL) from either Cambridge, Harvard and Oxford. Those are the best. Of course if they have a PhD to supplement, even better. But chances are people with PhD go on to become academics.
(2) next, are people with BA law from Oxbridge. A BA law from oxbridge at high 2:1 is roughly equivalent to a NUS weak first class (more than 5% but below 10% of cohort) or a very strong SMU magna. A first from Oxbridge is in a league of its own and potentially equal in status to a strong first class or very high summa from SMU (more comparable are those with the double degrees rather than single degree).
(3) next are the people with strong NUS 2:1 or SMU magna. These are equivalent to a UCL/LSE/Durham first class. A mid 2:1 from NUS / SMU cum laude would be equivalent to all other first class on the list of scheduled universities (UK as well as Australia).
(4) NUS weak 2:1 or 2:2 LL.B or SMU (lower than cum laude) would be equivalent to all 2:1 LL.B from the list of scheduled universities (UK as well as Australia). A first class from the list of omitted universities would belong here.
(5) any 2:2 LL.B or lower from the list of scheduled universities / 2:1 LL.B from the list of omitted universities.

I am thinking doing a jd.

For those who are doing or have done so

where do you get so much money from to pay school fee
costs $70k- $150k

how long did you take to earn the amount back?

where do jd go after they graduate?

the job market so bad now so should i do law?

Originally Posted by Unregistered

If I may add my inputs, let's talk about what most singaporeans have done and then rank the schools accordingly.
With the exception of a very select few that have gone into academia, with a NUS LLB and go on to Yale to further their studies with a JSM and JSD, etc, most Singaporeans would traditionally have come from NUS/SMU for their undergrad LL.B.
My gut feel is that we view it this way among recruitment partners:
(1) the best are people with a LL.B (first class) from any law school (but sg qualified) and they go on to do a LL.M (or BCL) from either Cambridge, Harvard and Oxford. Those are the best. Of course if they have a PhD to supplement, even better. But chances are people with PhD go on to become academics.
(2) next, are people with BA law from Oxbridge. A BA law from oxbridge at high 2:1 is roughly equivalent to a NUS weak first class (more than 5% but below 10% of cohort) or a very strong SMU magna. A first from Oxbridge is in a league of its own and potentially equal in status to a strong first class or very high summa from SMU (more comparable are those with the double degrees rather than single degree).
(3) next are the people with strong NUS 2:1 or SMU magna. These are equivalent to a UCL/LSE/Durham first class. A mid 2:1 from NUS / SMU cum laude would be equivalent to all other first class on the list of scheduled universities (UK as well as Australia).
(4) NUS weak 2:1 or 2:2 LL.B or SMU (lower than cum laude) would be equivalent to all 2:1 LL.B from the list of scheduled universities (UK as well as Australia). A first class from the list of omitted universities would belong here.
(5) any 2:2 LL.B or lower from the list of scheduled universities / 2:1 LL.B from the list of omitted universities.

"My gut feel" says it all. Who's the "we"?
You do know that it is not really that difficult to get into programmes similar to Cambridge LLM if you have a first from a decent university right? The added value of doing a masters immediately post llb is almost negligible unless you are aiming for academia - and you will be wasting one year of your PQE.

Truth is every partner/recruiter/firm will have different standards and preferences when it comes to the candidates. Some place greater emphasis on academics and some care more about fit and attitude, etc. Undeniably, there are some schools which would rank higher than than others. Further, a first from a decent university would likely give your cv a greater chance of being noticed and then shortlisted for interviews. However, when it comes to retention, it is more about your work performance, fit and attitude. As you progress in your legal career, your results matter less and less.

Next question you would probably ask is what is a "decent" university? It again depends on the people reading your cv and doing the recruitment. If you are applying to an international firm with foreign graduate recruitment, SMU is likely going to be ranked the same as any other Russell group university. As another example, if the partner reading your cv went to the same university as you, chances are you will have a higher chance of being noticed and shortlisted.

Times are tough, whichever school you are in, work hard to get good results, get internship experience, do your best for the internships and hope for the best.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Here's a tray of eggs. How many chickens have you got?

Please be realistic. We take like 5 new trainees a year? This number includes Firsts from NUS, SMU, OxCam, Harvard, Yale and a crapload of firsts from leading universities all over the globe. You're a second year NUS student. Unless you're at the top of the Dean's list and have a surefire way of keeping your ass there for the next 3 years, you may have to accept the near certainty that a CC TC is just not going to happen.

Sorry to dampen your hopes, but that $10k trainee paycheck is not going to come easy. If you really want to come in, you stand a far better chance "lateralling in" after a few years in Big4 practice.

Lol please don't pretend to be from CC. You don't even know what the trainee pay is. Also, there are many non-firsts and non-summas from NUS and SMU. Cheers.