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  #10191 (permalink)  
Old 18-02-2024, 09:47 PM
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Costs of providing education don't only include EO salaries and headcount maintenance. Costs of everything are increasing, even simple things like school electricity bills and providing stable internet access for tech-enabled T&L.

Anyway, they will tell you that the headcount problem isn't a money issue, but a not-enough-warm-bodies issue. It is somewhat true since the size of the local workforce is projected to drop drop drop like grapes in the years to come, and it is not so simple to just import FTs in bulk to bolster the education officer headcount (unlike in certain industries).
Who is to say it couldn't be easy to import FT teachers in bulk?

Have you looked at the MT depts in schools? Excluding ML teachers, most of the CL and TL teachers are foreigners. Young Singaporean CL and TL teachers are a rarity.

Math is math. Science is science. Pretty sure can import teachers for these subjects easily.

Maybe those localised subjects like social studies might be slightly harder. But not impossible.

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  #10192 (permalink)  
Old 19-02-2024, 12:43 AM
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Do any of you feel guilty when you leave the office on time? With the work completed, what's the point of staying back just to appear busy? I was casually asked by a colleague about my early departure, who jokingly suggested if I had another job on the side, based on what she claimed she heard from someone. When I asked if she stays back in the evenings despite having no work left, she said yes. It made me ponder the culture of presenteeism in our workplace and whether it truly adds value.
Not at all! I hardly ever leave "on time" anyway but if I do, I do it openly. There is no need to put on a show. Our work will somehow get us to stay beyond "office hours" anyway.

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  #10193 (permalink)  
Old 19-02-2024, 08:20 AM
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Who is to say it couldn't be easy to import FT teachers in bulk?

Have you looked at the MT depts in schools? Excluding ML teachers, most of the CL and TL teachers are foreigners. Young Singaporean CL and TL teachers are a rarity.

Math is math. Science is science. Pretty sure can import teachers for these subjects easily.

Maybe those localised subjects like social studies might be slightly harder. But not impossible.
Import more foreigners and then you'll get the xenophobes talking about the 'great replacement'

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  #10194 (permalink)  
Old 19-02-2024, 08:46 AM
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Hoping to see if anyone can clear this up.

Im an LH in my school , officially appointed in 2023. End of 2024, it will be my second full year.
Tbf, I am getting tired with the role. Was wondering is there a timeline before I can step down from my role? Anyone with such experience ?
Usually the step-down applications take effect at the beginning of next semester, but that's not a hard and fast rule depending on circumstances. Speak to your RO and/or principal for advice. Besides giving advice on stepping down, they may also be able to support you in other ways (e.g. change of portfolio). Take care!
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  #10195 (permalink)  
Old 19-02-2024, 09:05 AM
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Who is to say it couldn't be easy to import FT teachers in bulk?

Have you looked at the MT depts in schools? Excluding ML teachers, most of the CL and TL teachers are foreigners. Young Singaporean CL and TL teachers are a rarity.

Math is math. Science is science. Pretty sure can import teachers for these subjects easily.

Maybe those localised subjects like social studies might be slightly harder. But not impossible.
There are considerations on the ground on hiring foreigners. We are a small country very vulnerable to foreign influence and interference. The last thing we want is to open our doors big big to invite potential agents of influence. We are having teens radicalised from online content already. We also have profs or pple of influence who do not want to admit that they are speaking or acting on the interests of other nations - which has led to new laws passed this year to have us make their influences more visible.

Bilingualism is necessary policy for us to stay relevant in the world and region and sadly, due to the local shortage, we have little choice but to "import". We should however still exercise prudence.
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  #10196 (permalink)  
Old 19-02-2024, 01:27 PM
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There are considerations on the ground on hiring foreigners. We are a small country very vulnerable to foreign influence and interference. The last thing we want is to open our doors big big to invite potential agents of influence. We are having teens radicalised from online content already. We also have profs or pple of influence who do not want to admit that they are speaking or acting on the interests of other nations - which has led to new laws passed this year to have us make their influences more visible.

Bilingualism is necessary policy for us to stay relevant in the world and region and sadly, due to the local shortage, we have little choice but to "import". We should however still exercise prudence.
Do you have kids in preschool and kindergarten?

Almost all the teachers there are foreigners.

And when you go to university, a large portion of faculty staff are foreigners too.

If we are fine with foreigners teaching our youngest and oldest students, why so special for the middle P1 to JC students?


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  #10197 (permalink)  
Old 19-02-2024, 02:12 PM
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Do you have kids in preschool and kindergarten?

Almost all the teachers there are foreigners.

And when you go to university, a large portion of faculty staff are foreigners too.

If we are fine with foreigners teaching our youngest and oldest students, why so special for the middle P1 to JC students?
Yes, I have kids that have gone and going through both stages recently (presch and kindergarten).

You don't sound like an EO.

Are you familiar that while everything seems like they somewhat sits in the purview of MOE, it doesn't stand for Ministry of Everything. The ministry doesn't have full control or autonomy over the hiring practices of the entire industry. Even in pri to JC, the BOG and SMC dictates the hiring practices to a huge extent. They are the legal owners of these schools.

I ask that you review the presch industry in totality by looking at the MOE Kindergarten besides those under ECDA. Do you have kids that go through MOE Kindergarten? The pre school remuneration is significantly below median income in SG (<50% of what the average sgporean earns). This does make the industry less attractive to locals and with very real challenges to hire, compromises have to be made. That said, we should not say we are adverse to hiring foreigners. We just need to balance and prioritise based on needs and constraints.

We shouldn't close the gates, and neither should we leave it open with no regard.

On your last point, another consideration is that university students should not require such measures to "safeguard" them from influence. It will be embarrassing if we think our students in tertiary level will need policy level interventions. Most should be able to discern and flag out such influences. The youngest is nevertheless a worry, but I suppose we have to balance with the not so attractive job market and hoping these kids are too young to really be suited for indoctrination that cannot be corrected in primary school.
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  #10198 (permalink)  
Old 19-02-2024, 05:23 PM
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Who is to say it couldn't be easy to import FT teachers in bulk?

Have you looked at the MT depts in schools? Excluding ML teachers, most of the CL and TL teachers are foreigners. Young Singaporean CL and TL teachers are a rarity.

Math is math. Science is science. Pretty sure can import teachers for these subjects easily.

Maybe those localised subjects like social studies might be slightly harder. But not impossible.
Honestly speaking, hiring foreigners will be extremely hard since the recruitment is directly done by MOE HR. I believe their data will show that there is fierce overwhelming applications for MOE teaching. So they have no lack of local applicants. The only thing that is really happening right now is that they simply are not accepting as many new applicants. With this extremely high bar in place, it is almost impossible to get in. Even if you are offered, you may not be allocated your desired subjects. Many applicants have declined the offer because of this.

The real question to ask, is whether the manpower to work ratio is indeed healthy or not right now. That said, perhaps some roundabout administrative reason will be unleashed and that will be the end of it?

Highly doubt any transparent financial or logistical reason will be given?
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  #10199 (permalink)  
Old 19-02-2024, 08:51 PM
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Honestly speaking, hiring foreigners will be extremely hard since the recruitment is directly done by MOE HR. I believe their data will show that there is fierce overwhelming applications for MOE teaching. So they have no lack of local applicants. The only thing that is really happening right now is that they simply are not accepting as many new applicants. With this extremely high bar in place, it is almost impossible to get in. Even if you are offered, you may not be allocated your desired subjects. Many applicants have declined the offer because of this.

The real question to ask, is whether the manpower to work ratio is indeed healthy or not right now. That said, perhaps some roundabout administrative reason will be unleashed and that will be the end of it?

Highly doubt any transparent financial or logistical reason will be given?
So far what has been raised in this thread, is that hiring is cut, so to free up singaporean graduates for the workforce, for other sectors.

Reduced hiring of Singaporean teachers doesn't have to be tied to reduced hiring of foreign teachers

To illustrate how ridiculous this thinking is, let's apply the same logic to the healthcare sector

Sg has a shortage of doctors, and doctors work long hours. Should MOH therefore reduce the number of Medicine places in our local unis and hire less Singaporean doctors, so as to free up these bright young minds for other key economic sectors, such as finance, AI or data science (insert hot field) perhaps?
At the same time MOH should not look into hiring of FT doctors, since clearly there's so many bright Singaporean students with straight As applying for a place in sg medical schools, right?

Yet when we visit polyclinics and public hospitals, there are so many FT doctors.

Squeezing teachers dry and endlessly piling on additional work on them is not sustainable nor ethical.
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  #10200 (permalink)  
Old 20-02-2024, 03:42 PM
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So far what has been raised in this thread, is that hiring is cut, so to free up singaporean graduates for the workforce, for other sectors.

Reduced hiring of Singaporean teachers doesn't have to be tied to reduced hiring of foreign teachers

To illustrate how ridiculous this thinking is, let's apply the same logic to the healthcare sector

Sg has a shortage of doctors, and doctors work long hours. Should MOH therefore reduce the number of Medicine places in our local unis and hire less Singaporean doctors, so as to free up these bright young minds for other key economic sectors, such as finance, AI or data science (insert hot field) perhaps?
At the same time MOH should not look into hiring of FT doctors, since clearly there's so many bright Singaporean students with straight As applying for a place in sg medical schools, right?

Yet when we visit polyclinics and public hospitals, there are so many FT doctors.

Squeezing teachers dry and endlessly piling on additional work on them is not sustainable nor ethical.
Agree that itís unethical to do so.

Iím not supporting MOEís HR practice or buying their often repeated narrative Ďcritical massí, but the unspoken fact is that cost of supporting ageing population has risen tremendouly over the years. look at the recent budget and the amount that was allocated to Merdeka/Pioneer/Young Seniors.

Is the pie expanding as fast as our expenses? when we need to spend more than what we have, funds need to be reallocated from elsewhere. This reallocation would need to come from various sources, and education sector is not spared unfortunately. hence, i seriously doubt increasing manpower strength or the teacher-student ratio will happen anytime soon. EOs are expected to be by their students all the time while juggling many admin and menial duties. this is the sad reality for SG teachers.
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