Really that bad for engineers?

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Well written piece.

To each his own, I would say. As an old fart engineer, I can safely say that our engineering training has made us quite versatile. Engineers can switch line quite easily except of course to those professions that require extensive training (like doctors). We have engineers who became lawyers, teachers, accountants, bankers, entreprenuers, politicians etc..

People (engineers are no exception) need to find their right fit, so if they can find it early the better for them. Sometimes the push to move can come from within the comppany - the environment, the pay, working hours, the job itself etc... Many of my cohorts especially those with 1st and 2nd upper honours have moved away from engineering work early in their careers without regrets! We are talking 25 to 30 years ago! A good number from the civil service/stat boards, SAF and MNCs, so no particular trend there.

Engineers' remuneration are not exceptional, but if one stick it out to the end (retirement), it is sufficient to lead a comfortable life, to bring up a family, have a condo, car and comfortable retirement. The more gungho ones would have owned landed properties.

Wonderfully written.

But the world today is so much more different. I remember one guy named richard posted on this thread long time ago saying how he got to riches by joining the german MNC in 1980s and eventually reaching the peak of corporate world, earning multi-million. The world is different now, and i doubt many engineers can last to the end without being retrenched. . Besides, the high cost of living and low salary increment will push engineers to explore alternative careers.

I need advice here too. Been following this thread for two years (was free in NS) and still have not decided. Currently have a placing in Mech Eng (NTU). Wondering if it will be wise for me to change course. I have interest in programming, physics and business/finance. Appreciative to the one who told me about taking up masters in finance / MBA after some work experience. Again, there are many naysayers saying that will be futile. Really confused by so many opinions out there.

Is there any way of breaking into finance by doing a b.eng? I can switch to computer engineering too, my results are abv avr and i can change to many course (except business course in local uni, straight aces these days). Or perhaps i should apply to SIM-UOL business/finance programmes?

As much as i wish to do a bachelor in my field of interest, i wish to be in good financial health too.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I need advice here too. Been following this thread for two years (was free in NS) and still have not decided. Currently have a placing in Mech Eng (NTU). Wondering if it will be wise for me to change course. I have interest in programming, physics and business/finance. Appreciative to the one who told me about taking up masters in finance / MBA after some work experience. Again, there are many naysayers saying that will be futile. Really confused by so many opinions out there.

Is there any way of breaking into finance by doing a b.eng? I can switch to computer engineering too, my results are abv avr and i can change to many course (except business course in local uni, straight aces these days). Or perhaps i should apply to SIM-UOL business/finance programmes?

As much as i wish to do a bachelor in my field of interest, i wish to be in good financial health too.

1. MBA is not cheap.

2. If you want to go into finance, you are better off doing easier degrees. Engineering is one of the hardest course to score a 1st class and guess what? Finance companies don't really care which degree you get because they don't teach them in universities.

Better to get an easier to score degree and spend more time on CCA/leadership.

3. People from banking always talk about sky high retrenchment, tough assessment centres and they hire very little people. And about how finance don't really hire. The same applies for engineering. The ones that hire are the ones with high turnover due to poor work life balance and disgustingly low pay. Other than that, you have to pray hard to be one of the 1-3 grads/masters/phd that companies hire once every few years.

If you're in engineering, do know that engineering faculty is larger than arts and biz faculty combined. Oh not forgetting NUS engineering faculty too.

4. IMO, the money is in programming and design now. Programming languages is absolutely essential in engineering. Are there any designing companies in Singapore? Yes but extremely little in Singapore. Most of them are overseas.

5. My recommendations? Computer engineering would be good if you are interested in an engineering course. The things you learn are more applicable. Otherwise, biz/acct is the way to go. Try to get into either NUS or NTU or SMU.

It is not a coincidence that 50% of the engineering grads work in non-engineering fields and another 50% of the remaining quit engineering after a few years. The numbers don't lie. Engineering is mainly manufacturing and manufacturing is dead. To the companies, Singaporeans are here to look after process only (aka glorified technicians).

Originally Posted by Unregistered

1. MBA is not cheap.

2. If you want to go into finance, you are better off doing easier degrees. Engineering is one of the hardest course to score a 1st class and guess what? Finance companies don't really care which degree you get because they don't teach them in universities.

Better to get an easier to score degree and spend more time on CCA/leadership.

3. People from banking always talk about sky high retrenchment, tough assessment centres and they hire very little people. And about how finance don't really hire. The same applies for engineering. The ones that hire are the ones with high turnover due to poor work life balance and disgustingly low pay. Other than that, you have to pray hard to be one of the 1-3 grads/masters/phd that companies hire once every few years.

If you're in engineering, do know that engineering faculty is larger than arts and biz faculty combined. Oh not forgetting NUS engineering faculty too.

4. IMO, the money is in programming and design now. Programming languages is absolutely essential in engineering. Are there any designing companies in Singapore? Yes but extremely little in Singapore. Most of them are overseas.

5. My recommendations? Computer engineering would be good if you are interested in an engineering course. The things you learn are more applicable. Otherwise, biz/acct is the way to go. Try to get into either NUS or NTU or SMU.

It is not a coincidence that 50% of the engineering grads work in non-engineering fields and another 50% of the remaining quit engineering after a few years. The numbers don't lie. Engineering is mainly manufacturing and manufacturing is dead. To the companies, Singaporeans are here to look after process only (aka glorified technicians).

i would like to point out that 4, programming; is as dead as engineering. too many FTs and outsourcing. Electronic programming such as C, C++, C#, vb, etc pay is actually lower then process engr with shifts. web based language pays slightly higher only.

whats the market rate now for fresh grad in semicon industry?

Originally Posted by Unregistered

whats the market rate now for fresh grad in semicon industry?

for what? ite/dip/deg?


From a small survey of people i know, fresh dips are 1,650 - 2000; my coy local sme is offering that. fresh deg = 2.7 - 3.4(1st cls). as far as i know, msce are the best ratio for education / pay, easily 4.2k not fresh! (with 1-2yr exp)

[rubberbus]

Anyone know the starting salary and job prospect for power engineer?

Electronics engineer... ya the supposedly shitties job

late thirties, 12 years experience.

Annual including bonus is around 150k.

I now own a landed property paid by my own salary/stock options with around 400k outstanding loan.

Every job also got success stories one lah. Even electronics engineer.
My educational background is very good though (ie top few students in singapore...) but success sometimes can be due to luck or hard work.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Electronics engineer... ya the supposedly shitties job

late thirties, 12 years experience.

Annual including bonus is around 150k.

I now own a landed property paid by my own salary/stock options with around 400k outstanding loan.

Every job also got success stories one lah. Even electronics engineer.
My educational background is very good though (ie top few students in singapore...) but success sometimes can be due to luck or hard work.

Well done, but still goes to show engineering pay lags. Most top brain like you that i know of are earning at least double in finance, consulting or superscale in public service.

Originally Posted by networth

Well done, but still goes to show engineering pay lags. Most top brain like you that i know of are earning at least double in finance, consulting or superscale in public service.

top grades does not mean I can do finance or consulting....

although a LOT of my peers went into Finance...

my job got not much stress because I don't really want to climb up anymore... no need to see anybody's face...

no big housing loans, decent pay, play with my kid everyday, go vacation twice a year, live in a nice house, etc.

I mean how long can one live. I don't want to start to enjoy life only after 50 years old or something.

I know people who earn much more than me but don't really "enjoy" life. maybe they like working. Or they will stay in small flat/condo and buy 2nd property for rental.

[aspenx]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Is there any way of breaking into finance by doing a b.eng? I can switch to computer engineering too, my results are abv avr and i can change to many course (except business course in local uni, straight aces these days). Or perhaps i should apply to SIM-UOL business/finance programmes?

As much as i wish to do a bachelor in my field of interest, i wish to be in good financial health too.

If you're really really into finance, you can join the NTU Investment Club. Take part in competitions, actually win them and do some sideline investing on your own. A CPA/CFA helps but a friend made it into Credit-Suisse straight from our EEE graduation without it. Yes, he won competitions and invested himself. The experience and motivation shows on both your resume and person. The only thing you will have to worry about after getting all those bases covered is how to score an interview. Networking is key. Maybe do a minor in accounting, biz or entrepreneurship too if you can handle it.

Maybe through it you might come to have a different understanding of good financial health. It also means being contented with what you have and managing what you have well.