Really that bad for engineers?

Your ex-employer (semi-con) was really lousy but it is not necessarily representative of all engineering employers or the industry as a whole. I've friends who enjoy working in the engineering industry and making decent compensation.

Your post may just encourage more engineering professionals to give up their career path and pursue banking, which is of now already overly staffed!

My advice is this: The Grass Always Seem Greener On The Other Side. 2009 graduate switching into banking and leaving for a MNC after 1-2 years? You have not seen the real side of banking, except for the fascade.

Originally Posted by happyman29

Just as a general response to this thread. I first read this thread two years ago, and mostly it has motivated me to switch my career path from being an engineer to a finance professional.

I graduated in 2009 from NTU Engine (really bad recession era), however I believe I was the second person in my cohort to sign a job offer before graduation with a semicon firm as an engineer (didn't mean anything actually). Lo and behold, long working hours with stressful conditions (being on call 24/7, imagine stepping into the movie theater on Saturday afternoon with your date when you receive a call from the plant to say line is down, come back now and up systems). Getting blame pushed on you by slimy department directors who never want to take any responsibility for any scrapped wafers. And your KPI exactly depends on that.

Most of the time I dare say out of every 10 people you meet in the plant, at least 6 or 7 will be male foreigner from China PRC, Indian, Pinoy and Malaysian. Forget about meeting hot chicks in the workplace if you are single, maybe getting a glimpse of the occasional doe-eyed female fresh local grad that will probably think of resigning after 6-8 months of work due to the overly-dominated male work environment.

References : http://www.singstat.gov.sg/pubn/pape...ep06-pg2-7.pdf.

Work compensation was terrible, about $2.7k monthly with no bonus and only AWS for a year. Not that I was ungrateful for having a job during a time where fellow grads still staying at home sending resumes, but it was really unhealthy to work with so many foreigners (my guess is there are so many applicants for the job because that they don't mind taking more depressed pay as they have FX benefits to remit home). As a employer running a semicon firm, I want lowest cost possible as my manufacturing overheads is already bloody high, imagine multimillion dollar equipment that need dunno how many years to have a decent ROI plus high usage of water and electricity. Manufacturing is basically run on debt - I guess that explains why there aren't any bonuses.

Fast-forward 3 years ahead, I am now working in a bank and already moving on to my next career path as a business analyst for a US MNC with pay package of $60K annual not inclusive of performance bonuses. Not that much definitely vs my finance seniors here who entered the industry earlier, but significantly more that my previous engineer job. But I am more than willing to accept that salary appreciation for better work-life balance (going out after work for drinks in the CBD area 2-3 times in a week with my colleagues and laughing so much more often), getting to wear nice tailored shirts with designer cufflinks and trousers and sleek work shoes (vs smelly safety helmets worn by so many foreign workers, irritating safety glasses, smelly safety vests and clown-like safety shoes). In addition, most of my work colleagues are singaporeans and US angmohs which are a different genre of people as with my previous job. Not to mention that working in a bank has its perks of getting to meet hot sexy office babes that usually dress up and put on make-up for work (I hardly think I saw any female engineers wear skirts, or even short skirts or heels for work for that matter). Like I said, that's not why I changed career path, but I'm stating that it is a perk, especially for single lonely men.

After typing so much, I just wanted to share with my fellow engine friends here who want to jump that there is still hope. Take the leap of faith and make the decision based on your personal evaluation of the situation. If you are willing to stomach the risk, it doesn't matter what you really do, but if you succeed, you may one day look back like me and say, damn! I should have done this years ago! I am not here to boast of anything, neither to say that my more established engine seniors made the wrong decision (engine bosses are probably definitely earning a higher and more comfortable pay package than me now due to being able to survive the tough run-in years), but I'm here to share that if you are where you are now and you aren't happy about it, then do something about it!

Gongxifacai! And may the year of the Snake bring you health and prosperity!

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Your ex-employer (semi-con) was really lousy but it is not necessarily representative of all engineering employers or the industry as a whole. I've friends who enjoy working in the engineering industry and making decent compensation.

Your post may just encourage more engineering professionals to give up their career path and pursue banking, which is of now already overly staffed!

My advice is this: The Grass Always Seem Greener On The Other Side. 2009 graduate switching into banking and leaving for a MNC after 1-2 years? You have not seen the real side of banking, except for the fascade.

So what's the real side of banking?

The median salary of banking is probably in-line with the other professions. The problem is that everyone just focuses on the guy working in CBD as the benchmark when there are probably 3-4 guys working in Changi/Tampines plus another 3-4 working in Malaysia/Tampines for every banking professional working in the CBD.

Bankers suffer from a strange disease. If they earn x, they will likely everyone to think that they are earning 2x. No puzzle actually since this is the exact persona that banking attracts. If you have friends in MLM, Insurance, Real Estate sales, they do the same thing.

Engineers also suffer from a strange disease. If they earn x, they will tell everyone they earn 1/2 x. They will go onto forums and complain about how crap their industry is when it actually ain't that bad.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

So what's the real side of banking?

Well written piece.

To each his own, I would say. As an old fart engineer, I can safely say that our engineering training has made us quite versatile. Engineers can switch line quite easily except of course to those professions that require extensive training (like doctors). We have engineers who became lawyers, teachers, accountants, bankers, entreprenuers, politicians etc..

People (engineers are no exception) need to find their right fit, so if they can find it early the better for them. Sometimes the push to move can come from within the comppany - the environment, the pay, working hours, the job itself etc... Many of my cohorts especially those with 1st and 2nd upper honours have moved away from engineering work early in their careers without regrets! We are talking 25 to 30 years ago! A good number from the civil service/stat boards, SAF and MNCs, so no particular trend there.

Engineers' remuneration are not exceptional, but if one stick it out to the end (retirement), it is sufficient to lead a comfortable life, to bring up a family, have a condo, car and comfortable retirement. The more gungho ones would have owned landed properties.

Originally Posted by happyman29

Just as a general response to this thread. I first read this thread two years ago, and mostly it has motivated me to switch my career path from being an engineer to a finance professional.

I graduated in 2009 from NTU Engine (really bad recession era), however I believe I was the second person in my cohort to sign a job offer before graduation with a semicon firm as an engineer (didn't mean anything actually). Lo and behold, long working hours with stressful conditions (being on call 24/7, imagine stepping into the movie theater on Saturday afternoon with your date when you receive a call from the plant to say line is down, come back now and up systems). Getting blame pushed on you by slimy department directors who never want to take any responsibility for any scrapped wafers. And your KPI exactly depends on that.

Most of the time I dare say out of every 10 people you meet in the plant, at least 6 or 7 will be male foreigner from China PRC, Indian, Pinoy and Malaysian. Forget about meeting hot chicks in the workplace if you are single, maybe getting a glimpse of the occasional doe-eyed female fresh local grad that will probably think of resigning after 6-8 months of work due to the overly-dominated male work environment.

References : http://www.singstat.gov.sg/pubn/pape...ep06-pg2-7.pdf.

Work compensation was terrible, about $2.7k monthly with no bonus and only AWS for a year. Not that I was ungrateful for having a job during a time where fellow grads still staying at home sending resumes, but it was really unhealthy to work with so many foreigners (my guess is there are so many applicants for the job because that they don't mind taking more depressed pay as they have FX benefits to remit home). As a employer running a semicon firm, I want lowest cost possible as my manufacturing overheads is already bloody high, imagine multimillion dollar equipment that need dunno how many years to have a decent ROI plus high usage of water and electricity. Manufacturing is basically run on debt - I guess that explains why there aren't any bonuses.

Fast-forward 3 years ahead, I am now working in a bank and already moving on to my next career path as a business analyst for a US MNC with pay package of $60K annual not inclusive of performance bonuses. Not that much definitely vs my finance seniors here who entered the industry earlier, but significantly more that my previous engineer job. But I am more than willing to accept that salary appreciation for better work-life balance (going out after work for drinks in the CBD area 2-3 times in a week with my colleagues and laughing so much more often), getting to wear nice tailored shirts with designer cufflinks and trousers and sleek work shoes (vs smelly safety helmets worn by so many foreign workers, irritating safety glasses, smelly safety vests and clown-like safety shoes). In addition, most of my work colleagues are singaporeans and US angmohs which are a different genre of people as with my previous job. Not to mention that working in a bank has its perks of getting to meet hot sexy office babes that usually dress up and put on make-up for work (I hardly think I saw any female engineers wear skirts, or even short skirts or heels for work for that matter). Like I said, that's not why I changed career path, but I'm stating that it is a perk, especially for single lonely men.

After typing so much, I just wanted to share with my fellow engine friends here who want to jump that there is still hope. Take the leap of faith and make the decision based on your personal evaluation of the situation. If you are willing to stomach the risk, it doesn't matter what you really do, but if you succeed, you may one day look back like me and say, damn! I should have done this years ago! I am not here to boast of anything, neither to say that my more established engine seniors made the wrong decision (engine bosses are probably definitely earning a higher and more comfortable pay package than me now due to being able to survive the tough run-in years), but I'm here to share that if you are where you are now and you aren't happy about it, then do something about it!

Gongxifacai! And may the year of the Snake bring you health and prosperity!

Hi,
50k annual is that underpaid for an IT eng with 2 year of exp in Singapore? (Got master degree).
Could I earn more if I work for a bank? Is it possible to find a change in a bank if I am a foreigner?
Thanks!

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Cisco System?

Cannot be. Cisco dun employ freshies. Must have at least CCIE to join them as SEs.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Cannot be. Cisco dun employ freshies. Must have at least CCIE to join them as SEs.

American internet MNC

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Well written piece.

To each his own, I would say. As an old fart engineer, I can safely say that our engineering training has made us quite versatile. Engineers can switch line quite easily except of course to those professions that require extensive training (like doctors). We have engineers who became lawyers, teachers, accountants, bankers, entreprenuers, politicians etc..

People (engineers are no exception) need to find their right fit, so if they can find it early the better for them. Sometimes the push to move can come from within the comppany - the environment, the pay, working hours, the job itself etc... Many of my cohorts especially those with 1st and 2nd upper honours have moved away from engineering work early in their careers without regrets! We are talking 25 to 30 years ago! A good number from the civil service/stat boards, SAF and MNCs, so no particular trend there.

Engineers' remuneration are not exceptional, but if one stick it out to the end (retirement), it is sufficient to lead a comfortable life, to bring up a family, have a condo, car and comfortable retirement. The more gungho ones would have owned landed properties.

Agree with your comments. I know of someone who moved away from engineering in the early part of his career (3 or 4 years after graduation) and now holds a GM position in a MNCs. Earning big bucks and traveling around the world.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

80k+ base salary. Doesn't include bonus. This year's bonus has not been announced but CEO has already sent companywide email saying it will be good due to good results last year.

2nd lower degree in Comp Engine from NUS.

Perks:
Free lunch
Nice Pantry filled with snacks
everyone gets a company phone(mine is iphone 5) with company paid subscription

Work life balance is excellent. During my division's town council meeting held recently, management top goal is "improving work-life balance". Really speaks volumes of the companies' culture.

Congrats on a god situation. But to be frank, u got lucky.

U are enjoying above average salary even though your credentials are unexceptional. Thats luck and not a basis for a career decision for other people.

But I take your general point that there are needle in the haystack opportunities out there if you search.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Cannot be. Cisco dun employ freshies. Must have at least CCIE to join them as SEs.

CCIE is not a mandatory requirement.. but you will be encouraged or given KPI to get it after you join..