Really that bad for engineers?

Originally Posted by Unregistered

IDA guys are talent. Their talent are not one or two isolated case, but systemic and institutional. Not only they prove themselves extremely competent in making everyone use HTTP mail, then sub-contract MOE mail to GOOGLE (disgraceful). Their boss Yong Ying-il, daughter of LKY classmate are extremely talented holding position as Permanent Secretary (Health) and concurrently Permanent Secretary (National Research and Development).

For example,

Koh Seah Wee was sentenced to 22 years in jail and Lim Chai Meng to 15 years for their roles in cheating Singapore government agencies of S$12.5 million ($10 million) in the city’s biggest public-sector fraud since 1995.

Koh and IDA attached to SLA has a reporting officer of, also another IDA attached to SLA (forget his name). Apparently he is not able understand what Koh is doing. A very junior engineer would have smell a rat.

Ya correct bosses don know nitty gritty.

Anyway, MRT breaks down again and again. Our government so many talent. All these are just isolated cases Singaporeans use to denigrate government.

wow, IDA really got talent.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

If you want to go into banks IT Dept today which are controlled by FT Indians-- unless pig sprout wings.

Subject: A step in the right direction: discriminatory practices against Singaporeans
To: [email protected]
Cc: [email protected]

Dear Mr. Minister:
I just read the article entitled ‘Don’t hire, promote own kind at expense of S’poreans‘. I cannot begin to say just how thrilled I am to see that the government is FINALLY stepping up to the plate in trying to curb this problem. I have been ranting and raving about this issue ever since I joined the workforce in 2004. I have worked at Hewlett Packard and Frost & Sullivan in Singapore, and both these companies are unabashedly guilty of such hiring practices.

I was a Director at Frost & Sullivan (Singapore) Pte Ltd. and I am well aware of our internal slant towards hiring MBAs from India. There was one time when we made 12 offers in one fell swoop to SP Jain (Singapore campus) and IIM MBA graduates. NOT A SINGLE Singaporean was offered a position. It wasn’t for lack of qualified Singaporean candidates either. Even our campus recruitment was geared towards hiring from Indian universities, instead of NUS, SMU and NTU. Cost was not the factor. We offered many of these graduates between SGD6,000 to SGD10,000 a month.

I can’t help but recall a situation of such irony that to this day, it pains me to have had experienced it at all. At Frost & Sullivan, one of our largest client sectors was the Government sector in Singapore. We brought in well over USD2 million a year in consulting engagements from the Government sector alone – both stat boards and ministries. When we staffed our projects, we would be lucky if we had even 20% of Singaporeans being utilized in the project team.

The entire management team at Frost & Sullivan are foreigners (with the exception of one). We have also helped many of our foreign hires to become Singaporean citizens during the period of their employment. While I am not against using foreign talent, the unfortunate reality is that many of these decently paying positions could have very easily been filled by Singaporeans.

Having done Manpower planning studies for two stat boards in Singapore, the facts and figures are quite startling, to say the least.

During my tenure at Hewlett Packard, I was on several government IT projects. Over 90% of my 100+ person team were foreigners. Like many other companies, how HP cleverly circumvented being “obvious” was to use “contractors”. Our contract was with the employment agencies who, in turn hire almost only foreigners. Hence, the headcount was never really seen. Of the 100+ person who was staffed on this one particular government IT engagement, less than 10% were full-time employees hired directly by HP.

In addition to my own personal experience, I know with absolute certainty that many of my close non-Singaporean friends who head up IT divisions within the banking sector have similar preferences of hiring foreigners over Singaporeans. While I cannot condone such practices, the system makes it far too easy for this to happen. They claim that it is better to hire foreigners because these foreign workers are more than likely to stay as almost all of them want to ultimately obtain Singapore citizenship.

Rather than formulating workable incentives to keep Singaporeans at their jobs, management takes the easy way out. Is this how a country takes care of its own?

As citizens, we give our country two and a half years of our life by going through national service. In that time, our foreign compatriots gain experience in the work force and we, as loyal citizens are penalized. Where is the logic behind this? I strongly believe that our government has a primary and inalienable duty and dedication to its citizens.

The vicious cycle is well engrained in every level of employment. Senior Management positions are given to foreign nationals. They then are inclined to hire their own kind, cutting people like myself completely out in the cold with no options but to seek higher-salaried employment elsewhere.

I am now a foreigner working in China because of the simple fact that many of the high-paying jobs in Singapore have been taken by my foreign friends. I would return to Singapore in a heartbeat if I could make the same sort of salary as I do here.

I have never felt more slighted being a Singaporean than I have during my career in Singapore.

Warmest Regards,
xxxxx

another bitter director. go and improve yourself instead of blaming racism la. With your attitude, i think you only have the cut to collect ****.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Anyway, MRT breaks down again and again. Our government so many talent. All these are just isolated cases Singaporeans use to denigrate government..

don anyhow blame here blame there la....emperor is naked. We must still cheer very good very good..... else you know somehow here will accuse you bitter and assume you are loser la.

CEO Saw definitely talent.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

another bitter director. go and improve yourself instead of blaming racism la. With your attitude, i think you only have the cut to collect ****.

I don't think the author's post was meant to be racist. I myself did an internship at one of the two companies he mentioned previously and the fact is, even local, Singaporean Indians were put at a disadvantage in these companies. Job opportunities were going to India's MBA graduates and I dare say that the vast majority of the permanent staff there (including all the partners), were Indians from India, certainly not locals. So it still comes down to the fact that locals, regardless of their race, are being left behind and left out of the top management in many of these companies.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I don't think the author's post was meant to be racist. I myself did an internship at one of the two companies he mentioned previously and the fact is, even local, Singaporean Indians were put at a disadvantage in these companies. Job opportunities were going to India's MBA graduates and I dare say that the vast majority of the permanent staff there (including all the partners), were Indians from India, certainly not locals. So it still comes down to the fact that locals, regardless of their race, are being left behind and left out of the top management in many of these companies.

Another bitter man. I am big boss from PAP. You know, when I see this sort of posting, I will call my maggot underlings that I despise to send you a rebuke.

My maggot lackies will accuse you of poor PR, and question your ability. Then tell you go back home and sleep and get out of his elite face.

For me, I am born rich, educated in Ivy league schools, not because I am smart, but because I am born fitly rich. I am extremely lazy, and I everyday play woman. Can't believe it, everyone say I handsome and I am talent.

I always like to abuse honest and capable people, because their righteouesness and inflexibility are always a torn in my flesh. Always, my useless lapdog will come and bite people using the most wicked lies.

This people will turn around and call lazy and stupid people like me, talent. I love that.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

In typical private sector
engineer: 2-3k
senior engineer: 3.2-5k
principal engineer: above 5k

Ass Manager: above 5k
Manager: above 6k
Dept Manager: above 8k

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Promotion prospect for above out of college average engineer

engineer Year 1- Year 3
If people does not give you senior engineer latest at the 5th year, they are telling you to go implicitly.

senior engineer Year 3 -
You can stuck here for rest of your life, but most engineer do not mind if their salary stagnant at around 5k

principal engineer/asst manager Year 8 -
With some luck, a boss who like you, and a reasonably good company, you may get principal engineer at Year 8, and stuck there for rest of your life.

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DSTA, DSO, LTA....etc
engineer above 3k
5 years get 5k if you are good at stabbing people

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Civil service pay for local non scholar graduate
above 3k
5 years get 5k if you are good at stabbing people

I look at the civil service salary forum, there are lots and lots of ******** similar to engineer salary forum. I am personally in ministry. Take 2nd lower honor teacher as example.

Join GEO 1: 3k
Year 1 after NIE GEO 1A1 : around 3.5k
Year 3-5 after NIE GEO 1A2 : above 5k

Turnover rate: horrible, within 5 years more than 50% resign despite good $$$. Being in ministry and private sector, I 1000% assured you that you find the most wicked people there in government job.
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I am seeing lots and lots of ******** in salary forum. I think PAP is trying to paint a good picture.

This is by far the most accurate salary description for engineer.

>most wicked people there in government job.

Can someone elaborate on the wicked part?

My belief is that the higher the pay, the more wicked people are. The most backstabbing and sleeping with the enemy cases happen in banks. Civil service office politics is chicken feed.

I worked as a part-timer in SME when I was young. I thought the backstabbing was quite bad, until I grew up and took an arrow in my knee.

Originally Posted by Bean

4k+ to 6k+......mean must consecutively having 15% annual increment then can hit 6k+ in the next 3 years...

Engineering company where got pay annual increment 15% one

ST pay only 3-5% .....3% is the norm, 5% is for 'A' grader....lol

er.... i tink it says 6k gross, not basic. chill and relax. dun go green and red eyed when ppl post high numbers.

Originally Posted by Bean

hitting 5k in 5 years as an engineer is very hard unless you are in the oil/gas sector....or in DSTA/DSO/PUB as an engineer..

I have been work in ST engineering and by this coming july will be 5 years.....estimate can't even hit 3.9k after 5 years inclusive 1 promotion

ST mah, their salary and how they treat their engineers is very well known one. Stay for almost 5 yrs, I really salute you!

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I assume you graduate in 2006 july and start working in ST electronic from fresh grad.
I also assume you got a 1st Class honours from local NTU/NUS.

$104000 per annum (13 months payout for the whole year) mean your basic salary as of now = 104000/13 = $8000/month

Assume your starting pay in 2006 july is $3000 with annual increment of 8% for 'A' grader performer for 4 years + 1 promotion to senior engineer increment (also additional 8% increment).

-->your current salary should be = 3000 x 1.08 x 1.08 x 1.08 x 1.08 x 1.08 = $4400

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Unless you are working oversea eg, Israel with overseas allowance which is additional of about 2000-3000 on top of your basic salary , then you should be getting as what you had mention.

Otherwise you are totally bullsh!t here.

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Note: My brother is working in ST electronic for 5 years arm with Master degree some more getting no more than $3300/month.

Please reply
Thank you

I worked in ST before, and I couldn't agree more to the above reply. If you're asking anything more than 3.5-3.8k, I don't think u would be employed in the 1st place, and of what I know, the variable bonus is typically in the range of 2-3 mths.

Victor