Lawyer Salary

Originally Posted by lifeistough

AHA i think I know which dept you're talking about. THANKS!

Hows your M&A and Cap markets department though?

M&A is quite seasonal. Cap markets is perpetually shiong.

Well, I guess the government could consider funding some of the smaller one-two man outfits in order to persuade them to take pupils? Subsidize their TC honorariums maybe? That might work in pushing fresh grads towards community law work. And I'm sure the principals wouldn't mind getting some subsidized cheap labour courtesy of the govt.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

If you succeed in joining a reputable big4 liti team, the statistical likelihood of you burning out and leaving the industry within 3 years is approximately 55-60%. I hope you'reade of sterner stuff than many of your predecessors.

What do you think of firms outside the big4 such as Khattarwong & TSMP?

Originally Posted by Unregistered

What do you think of firms outside the big4 such as Khattarwong & TSMP?

I believe you are the same poster that has been posing multiple one-liner general questions over multiple posts.

You have every right to ask questions on this forum.

But please, do so in a manner that is less repetitious. The following guidelines may help:

1. Consolidate a list of burning questions that you have. If possible sort them out into broad themes that logically cohere with one another (e.g. (i) job prospects and job-hunting tips, (ii) opinions on particular practice groups and firms, (iii) challenges of legal practice).

2. Particularise your question. This means not asking a very vague general question such as "what do you think of so-and-so firm?". What do you want to know about the firm? Do you want to know how I feel about its toilets? Or whether they have the most well-stocked pantry? Or what the working culture is like and whether juniors are treated well and valued for their work and opinions?

3. It helps if you can do some research on your own. Seek out seniors that you know and ask questions. In the future, you will realise that knowing who to ask what is a very useful skill to possess. An online forum won't be around for every question that you have.

MinLaw stats ensure students can make an informed choice: Voices

Mr Fong Wei Kurk’s letter, “An avoidable glut of lawyers?” (Aug 22), is based on some misperceptions.

The National University of Singapore takes in about 240 students annually for its Bachelor of Laws programme, while the Singapore Management University takes in 150 students. Almost all (97 per cent) local graduates have been securing training contracts.

Intake into the local law schools has grown only marginally over the years.

As part of its report last year, the 4th Committee on the Supply of Lawyers did not find a shortage in the overall number of lawyers.

It said there was a mismatch between supply and demand, specifically, a shortage of lawyers practising family and criminal law.

The SIM University Law School has been designed as a targeted way to address this need. It will attract mature students with experience in fields such as social work and law enforcement, and who display a keen interest in practising family or criminal law.

It will provide an alternative path for mid-career professionals wanting to study law, and those who may otherwise pursue a law degree overseas. The proposed intake will be small, ranging from 50 to 75 students.

As for overseas universities, the list of approved universities has not changed since 2006. Foreign firms and foreign-qualified lawyers, generally, can practise only the law of the foreign jurisdiction they are qualified from, and not Singapore law.

The Qualifying Foreign Law Practices (QFLP) scheme was started in 2008. This was recommended by a committee headed by Mr V K Rajah. Senior partners of major law firms were in the committee. They strongly recommended that QFLP licences be awarded, so as to grow the legal sector and make Singapore an attractive financial centre.

Firms under the scheme can practise permitted areas of Singapore law, but only through the employment of Singapore-qualified lawyers.

The first six firms awarded the licence in 2008 employ more than 100 Singapore lawyers now.

These and other measures seek to bring in work that may otherwise not come to Singapore, and thus create new opportunities for Singapore lawyers and local law firms. Arbitration is a good example of this.

Upcoming initiatives such as the establishment of the Singapore International Commercial Court will similarly create opportunities for Singapore lawyers and local law firms, as more cross-border work is expected to flow into Singapore.

The point that was originally made was that the number of Singaporean students studying law overseas has almost doubled to 1,500 within three years. That number represents 30 per cent of practising lawyers here.

Students who choose to pursue a law degree must carefully assess their prospects for getting training contracts in such a situation. They may well choose to read law but not to practise. The ministry was sharing the statistics to ensure that interested students have a clear view of all their options and are able to make an informed choice.

Praveen Randhawa

Director, Corporate Communications Division

Ministry of Law

Hey, I'd just like to register my appreciation to all the obviously practicing and well-informed lawyers who've taken their time to post their thoughts and advice on the forum. Makes for an enlightening read. Thanks very much.

I for one am happy with the glut of supply for lawyers. Not talking about the corporate side, but the lawyers dealing with civil/family cases charge way to much. They should be made to become hungrier. Situations like in the US where lawyers work for free for a cut of the earnings should arise.

Civil suits are too expensive in singapore. As a result justice goes to the person with the money to seek it

Contingency fees(where lawyers get a cut) aren't allowed in Singapore. You could get disbarred for accepting them. That said though I don't think the glut is going to decrease prices much... The barrier is still the number of training contracts on the market. The number of these directly limits the number of new lawyers.

I am a lawyer (Year 2), and I can say I am earning more than the range that is provided by Skydiver, even though I am in a local firm that is not in the big four and I did not get 2:1.

The key is to differentiate your skill set against other lawyers, and you will find yourself in an enviable position. I know it is easier said than done.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

caveat: not all the big 4 firms follow that payscale

also, if you start looking just outside of the big 4, you'll notice a drop-off in total comp

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Contingency fees(where lawyers get a cut) aren't allowed in Singapore. You could get disbarred for accepting them. That said though I don't think the glut is going to decrease prices much... The barrier is still the number of training contracts on the market. The number of these directly limits the number of new lawyers.

There are two paths: flood the country with many qualified-in-name-only lawyers by removing the training contract requirement and only stipulating that would-be lawyers need only pass the bar exam. THis ensures competition amongst lawyers for low-level work and force them to keep prices competitive for the common man's benefit. Something like the American system.

The second is to keep the status quo. this means the number of lawyers doing family and criminal law won't decrease, because they still have to get through the training contract stage by securing & completing one. There won't be any price decreases then.

The way I see it, for the first path legal fees for the common man will be low, but you run the risk of incompetent and inexperiennced lawyers screwing up your matters. In the second path, legal fees are more expensive but you're paying a premium for competence.

I'm not saying that a half-year TC period magically transforms one into a competent lawyer, but the training that one gets during the TC is closely associated with his/her continued mentorship with experienced lawyers in a law firm setting post-qualification.