Lawyer Salary

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I didn't say foreign trained lawyers are substandard. I said the M'sian qualified lawyers i've had the opportunity to cross paths with with were all sub standard imo

There are many E&W Australian and HK qualified lawyers here that I've worked with that were absolutely sharp and blow your average Singaporean Big 4 associate or even partner out of the water.

could you give some examples of how e&w, australian and hk qualified lawyers deal in liti/transactional matters differently than sg big 4 assocs/partners?

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Anyone knows what is the GPA cut-off to transfer into NUS/SMU law? Trying to transfer but the astronomical fees made me re-evaluate my decisions.

The chances for successful transfer are pretty low for a foreigner. It’s not just solely based on grades. They will reserve any leftover places for local Singaporean students on the wait list etc.

I will suggest that you complete your LLB at UM first. Work for a few years and then save enough money or take up a bank loan to study LLM at Cambridge. Try your best to get a TC there. Then apply back to Singapore as a E&W qualified lawyer.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I didn't say foreign trained lawyers are substandard. I said the M'sian qualified lawyers i've had the opportunity to cross paths with with were all sub standard imo

There are many E&W Australian and HK qualified lawyers here that I've worked with that were absolutely sharp and blow your average Singaporean Big 4 associate or even partner out of the water.

Did your counterparts from Bolehland come from twinning programs?

I came from a overseas school which had many on twinning programs and I also wonder what their twinning colleges teach lol.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Would like to fundamentally correct this way of thinking.

Not too recent Aus grad here at an international firm doing corp and private equity work. There are more of us here and at other places than you realise. You may not realise it, but firms are actually hiring us.

The good thing about the legal career, especially now that many recruitment partner committees are made up of younger generations, including people like me in a few years.

We care only if you're good. That does not equal only NUS/SMU or Oxbridge.

Indeed many of the SUSS, Australian and former delisted UK uni students are doing very well now. If not before, then because they've stuck through and lateralled after a few years when fewer lawyers stay in the middle.

So, take comfort that a good lawyer can come from anywhere.

In fact, I see more NUS/SMU students struggle than overseas grads - because there're so many of you, and the student culture is so toxic amongst each other (though there have been quite a lot of nice batches lately who co-exist with the overseas students now).

Hopefully that changes. We could do with more support, comradeship and encouragement in the community

I have no doubt that the universities you have mentioned can produce good lawyers

But at the recruitment stage, HR and recruitment partners will have to look at the University and grades of applicants - and it would be rather difficult that they opt to hire in favour of these Uni grades over NUS/SMU grads

So my point being is NUS/SMU grads often have superior A level / IB / POLY grades, so how would one convince HR and recruitment otherwise, to hire lower tier overseas grads?

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I have no doubt that the universities you have mentioned can produce good lawyers

But at the recruitment stage, HR and recruitment partners will have to look at the University and grades of applicants - and it would be rather difficult that they opt to hire in favour of these Uni grades over NUS/SMU grads

So my point being is NUS/SMU grads often have superior A level / IB / POLY grades, so how would one convince HR and recruitment otherwise, to hire lower tier overseas grads?

This is not true. I know many who have the grades to enter NUS/SMU, but they chose to go to LSE/UCL/UNSW instead

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I have no doubt that the universities you have mentioned can produce good lawyers

But at the recruitment stage, HR and recruitment partners will have to look at the University and grades of applicants - and it would be rather difficult that they opt to hire in favour of these Uni grades over NUS/SMU grads

So my point being is NUS/SMU grads often have superior A level / IB / POLY grades, so how would one convince HR and recruitment otherwise, to hire lower tier overseas grads?

are you an idiot? firms look at a candidate holistically

- work experience (especially if it's in the area you're interested in, but general work ethic, tasks you did- whether you did substantive work, and whether you understand the big picture of why the work needs to be done for the client, transferable skills)

- for grades, the important ones like contract, torts, company, maybe some interesting electives, your consistentcy or alternatively your improvement over the years, and overall degree class, they also seriously consider testimonials by your professors on your academic ability even if you didn't get a prize

- your interest in the firm's practice, team, work, whether you talked to anyone at the firm to learn more about them, showing a genuine interest, whether you tried to do things within or outside law to gain perspective about that particular practice (e.g. work inhouse or do a finance/tax course, etc)

- your ability to think on your feet and answer difficult questions and being able to present a reasonable and educated answer, if not on your knowledge based on your common sense and judgment

- your extracurriculars, shows you who you are outside of schoolwork, tells them a little about your goals and ambition, and interests, and who you are as a person

- there's so many more things that I can't list them all


We are not just human GPAs. We are our own people. That's who're they're looking for. Not what grade you are but who you are, and what you're trying to be. If they like that, they will take a chance on you.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

are you an idiot? firms look at a candidate holistically

- work experience (especially if it's in the area you're interested in, but general work ethic, tasks you did- whether you did substantive work, and whether you understand the big picture of why the work needs to be done for the client, transferable skills)

- for grades, the important ones like contract, torts, company, maybe some interesting electives, your consistentcy or alternatively your improvement over the years, and overall degree class, they also seriously consider testimonials by your professors on your academic ability even if you didn't get a prize

- your interest in the firm's practice, team, work, whether you talked to anyone at the firm to learn more about them, showing a genuine interest, whether you tried to do things within or outside law to gain perspective about that particular practice (e.g. work inhouse or do a finance/tax course, etc)

- your ability to think on your feet and answer difficult questions and being able to present a reasonable and educated answer, if not on your knowledge based on your common sense and judgment

- your extracurriculars, shows you who you are outside of schoolwork, tells them a little about your goals and ambition, and interests, and who you are as a person

- there's so many more things that I can't list them all


We are not just human GPAs. We are our own people. That's who're they're looking for. Not what grade you are but who you are, and what you're trying to be. If they like that, they will take a chance on you.

That's true only if you make it past the screening stage and get an interview. The problem is many applicants with merely ok grades from average overseas unis won't even get an interview. Hiring partners don't have time to interview everyone, so they will first filter candidates based on their academic credentials. The more prestigious the firm, the more selective they can afford to be.

Looks like it's TC season again, all the firm's updating their websites with the 1 year training programme

Originally Posted by Unregistered

The chances for successful transfer are pretty low for a foreigner. It’s not just solely based on grades. They will reserve any leftover places for local Singaporean students on the wait list etc.

I will suggest that you complete your LLB at UM first. Work for a few years and then save enough money or take up a bank loan to study LLM at Cambridge. Try your best to get a TC there. Then apply back to Singapore as a E&W qualified lawyer.

Disagree NUS/SMU do give a small portion to foreigners. I suggest no harm trying.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

That's true only if you make it past the screening stage and get an interview. The problem is many applicants with merely ok grades from average overseas unis won't even get an interview. Hiring partners don't have time to interview everyone, so they will first filter candidates based on their academic credentials. The more prestigious the firm, the more selective they can afford to be.

OP tried to shepherd the drones of robots that are the product the of Singapore education system. The robot, like a well coded machine, rejected even the hint of deviation from the well ingrained codes, with authority. Kudos to the Singapore education system for its incredible effectiveness.