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  #17511 (permalink)  
Old 18-08-2022, 09:36 AM
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Yes, BM NQ is 9.5k (from call, not from January like the B4)

2019 call is around 15.5-16k. B4 is around 10.5-11k.
Whoa, so big difference with a few years of PQE in?

Thatís like 50% more!

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  #17512 (permalink)  
Old 18-08-2022, 09:39 AM
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You're welcome.

By 2 year rotation programmes, I assume you mean the international firms' 2 year training programmes where you spend 2 years as a trainee and rotate across 4 practice areas, and then qualify as an NQ afterwards (even though you are already SG qualified after the first 6 months)? I know CC and Links offer this, and with Links you become SG and UK qualified.

If so, I would say it's quite a bit better to do your TC with an international firm, simply because you're essentially guaranteed a job with an international firm (assuming you are retained). Your career shouldn't be slowed down due to the rotation across practice areas, and in most cases this wider exposure is actually a benefit to you. The training at MC firms is also on the whole, much better than your average B4. TCs from MC firms are also MUCH harder to get than B4.

In terms of timing, bear in mind that as a general rule, laterals from B4 to MC firms get a 1-2 year PQE discount. This means there shouldn't be much of a difference in PQE between candidates who graduate at the same time, where one did the 2 year trainee programme with an international firm, and the other lateraled after training at a B4. But of course, your mileage may vary.

All in all, I would almost definitely always choose the international (MC) firm TC over a B4 TC.
I agree with you fully on pretty much every point. But if I already know what I would like to practise in, say B&F, or M&A, or DCM, would it be more worthwhile to get 2 years of PQE in the B4 then?

While in the B4, I get called in SG first, then clear the QLTS on the side to get E&W qualified?

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  #17513 (permalink)  
Old 18-08-2022, 09:42 AM
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You're welcome.

By 2 year rotation programmes, I assume you mean the international firms' 2 year training programmes where you spend 2 years as a trainee and rotate across 4 practice areas, and then qualify as an NQ afterwards (even though you are already SG qualified after the first 6 months)? I know CC and Links offer this, and with Links you become SG and UK qualified.

If so, I would say it's quite a bit better to do your TC with an international firm, simply because you're essentially guaranteed a job with an international firm (assuming you are retained). Your career shouldn't be slowed down due to the rotation across practice areas, and in most cases this wider exposure is actually a benefit to you. The training at MC firms is also on the whole, much better than your average B4. TCs from MC firms are also MUCH harder to get than B4.

In terms of timing, bear in mind that as a general rule, laterals from B4 to MC firms get a 1-2 year PQE discount. This means there shouldn't be much of a difference in PQE between candidates who graduate at the same time, where one did the 2 year trainee programme with an international firm, and the other lateraled after training at a B4. But of course, your mileage may vary.

All in all, I would almost definitely always choose the international (MC) firm TC over a B4 TC.
How about doing corp in B4, and apply for QLTS on the side and get E&W qualified too?

Then apply to US firms with 2 years specific corp PQE?

Vs 2 year rotation?

Thanks!

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  #17514 (permalink)  
Old 18-08-2022, 11:09 AM
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any thoughts on joining non white shoe US firms? better than big4 here?
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  #17515 (permalink)  
Old 18-08-2022, 11:16 AM
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TSMP paying 9k NQ. New market high
where did you hear that from? pretty sure if thats true it would be blasted everywhere on linkedin
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  #17516 (permalink)  
Old 18-08-2022, 12:40 PM
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How about doing corp in B4, and apply for QLTS on the side and get E&W qualified too?

Then apply to US firms with 2 years specific corp PQE?

Vs 2 year rotation?

Thanks!
US firms donít really care about E&W qualification IMO, at least for corporate transactional practices (excl. banking / finance). Focus is more on getting NY-qualified.

You can apply direct to US firms from B4 with just a SG bar qualification, though of course NY qualification may put you ahead of other applicants.
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  #17517 (permalink)  
Old 18-08-2022, 03:16 PM
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Anyone in big 4 litigation been working like 5 days a week (and weekends) till late night? How do you adjust to the hours and the stress?
Should I transfer to corp? Are the hours better?
Hours aren't better in corp as well. The things that makes corp better compared to liti, is that you have much lesser timelines to comply with (but you still have to comply with your clients' deadlines) and there is no pressure to "win".

Many interns and trainees think going to Court and fighting out in a trial is glamorous but in reality, the amount of preparatory work it takes behind the scenes is insane and good luck if you want to collect fees from client if the judge rules against your client and order costs. This alone is enough to make many switch to corp from liti.
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  #17518 (permalink)  
Old 18-08-2022, 04:22 PM
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Hours aren't better in corp as well. The things that makes corp better compared to liti, is that you have much lesser timelines to comply with (but you still have to comply with your clients' deadlines) and there is no pressure to "win".

Many interns and trainees think going to Court and fighting out in a trial is glamorous but in reality, the amount of preparatory work it takes behind the scenes is insane and good luck if you want to collect fees from client if the judge rules against your client and order costs. This alone is enough to make many switch to corp from liti.
Liti is easy. Much easier than corp. Its just talking.
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  #17519 (permalink)  
Old 18-08-2022, 05:45 PM
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I agree with you fully on pretty much every point. But if I already know what I would like to practise in, say B&F, or M&A, or DCM, would it be more worthwhile to get 2 years of PQE in the B4 then?

While in the B4, I get called in SG first, then clear the QLTS on the side to get E&W qualified?
If you know what you want to practise in, I suppose it could make sense to do that in a B4 straight away for more focused experience. But I always think that if you know that you want to end up in an MC firm, you might as well start at an MC firm. The MC brand name >>> B4 and you can start gaining valuable experience for your CV from day 1. Also, you won't have to compete with your other B4 peers when you are looking to lateral into an MC a few years down the line. I just think the benefit of doing your TC at B4 doesn't outweigh the benefits of starting at MC (but that's my personal opinion).

As for the QLTS (now SQE) for E&W qualification, yes, you can 'easily' get that while working in B4. But I think MC / US firms in SG don't really care about E&W qualifications. US firms may care a bit about NY qualifications (and definitely if you intend to do US capital markets work). Just look at the profiles of SG lawyers in MC/US firms in SG - that will give you an idea of how many have E&W / US qualifications.
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  #17520 (permalink)  
Old 18-08-2022, 08:17 PM
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wait so when you get called in Aug in a B4, how much do you get? since you only get the 7.5k the following january
Bump 10 char
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