Property Agents make A LOT of Money

Hi wisely, I am not sure about what you mean about responses, if you do not know what I'm talking, but I see that your responses are responding well to my opinions, ha ha.

I am not sure who is your big bank friend, but I think I am more qualifiy than your banker's friend. I travel 80% around the Asia market, my view is not subjected to only Singapore economy. I am looking at more Asia region and the situation in the US and Europe seems to favour us (as in Asia), much better than few years back. Consolidation around the States and European countries are happening now, more job loses will be announced, and do note where are the funds moving to. Look at the strategic location of Sg. Do you think why Sg government keep avoiding the sensitive issue about imposing FW, FT to Singapore. If Singapore does not catch this wave, then I am more worried. Depsite the political pressure, we cannot cut back on the reliance on FT. Foreign workers (I mean those in the service industries) are a need to boost our service sectors (hotel, constuction, maid, etcs), without them, how can we sustain those 25,000 BTOs, next years. Ha ha. Sometimes, I think when we reqeust somethings (like more subsidize flats), and yet we do not allow more FW/FT to come to work in Singapore. This is a bit of a contradiction.

I am not thinking the properties market are bullish (did I say that), but I am asking anyone whom is thinking of how to counter inflation (5.2%), the bank interest will not help. Gold is good, but going in now ???? I am not sure.

If I am interested in properties, I don't rely on agents (salesperson), their objectives are different from mine. They are going in for the kill (find a buyer), but for individual like me, I am more looking at the present development plan (master plan) of that particular location, and outlook of the next 5 yrs horizon. I have time to spare, ha ha.

Originally Posted by Wiseman1

I basically dont know what you are talking about....I talk about A and your response is B.
I am telling u Silly-poreans are over-leveraged on properties. They throw caution to the wind and heap up on property loans to finance expensive property purchases, because they follow the crowd and believe property is the best investment and prices would keep rising. That is what everybody is saying, especially property developers, agents and analysts, so these buyers dont give a damn about the affordability issues.

My friend is working in a big bank in the housing loans application department. She has got the best view. She is saying the way house buyers are stretching themselves to the limit for big mortages is sowing the seeds for big troubles soon....of course the bank is willing to lend to you as long as you have a job now.....when you cant pay, they just re-possess the house and wait for market conditions to improve to offload, no loss to them at all

Since you are so bullish and think the party would not end, good luck to you. A word of advice: If you invest in property based on advice of property analysts, you are courting for trouble. They should be the last person you listen to, all of them have vested interests...

Originally Posted by Unregistered_Making sense

Ha ha, I used to think like you, unfortunately, the gain is still going. May not be like my forefather (I think they don't own property at all), or simply my parents. I see how that insufficient funds can really impact their living. What is overpriced market? Ha ha, you are better than the developers, whom are bidding at higher psf, and do you think no taker at all? I have still got a long way to go, so I am not those investors that flip the property once it goes up by few percent.

When to go in, it is very much up to individual. No right or wrong, it is up to the purchaser decision and comfortability. Everyone out there (common sense) is thinking to strike when price is low, but question is when. It is not like share markets, when u think it is the "dip", ppl just move in and buy, thinking it is a bull market. Property is different, it takes expensive transaction cost to flip and get a buyer. But if we live on it or rent out, if market is not sunny, I think we won't lost in the long term, ultimately, the piece of property still belongs to you. Ha ha. cheer up and enjoy life.

With all due respect, the problem I have with your analysis is that there is no analysis at all.

Your fundamental premise is that property is inherently safe and hence you can choose to go in if you are comfortable doing so because you cannot lose in the long term. I beg to differ. Statistics and countless empirical examples beg to differ.

Many people who bought their outskirt condo at the peak in the mid 90s have still not seen their property values come back to par, despite the record prices we see currently. And this does not include frictional costs such as agent fees, stamp duty, inflation and interest cost.

Obviously timing matters in a highly cyclical market like property. In the absence of 20-20 hindsight, all you can do is take an objective and numerical view , and take the most rational route. Buying on faith of the infallibility of property, and ignoring the realities of the moment and if history sparks of foolhardiness to me.

Remember, no one is disputing that its important to have investments. I'm only disputing that going into property now is a good investment, and I've not seen anything in your post above that objectively convinces me otherwise.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Obviously timing matters in a highly cyclical market like property. In the absence of 20-20 hindsight, all you can do is take an objective and numerical view , and take the most rational route.

Unfortunately, like someone said earlier, "property can stay irrational longer than people can stay solvent."

This probably explains the exasperation of many people here who found their "rational" analysis not working as expected.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Unfortunately, like someone said earlier, "property can stay irrational longer than people can stay solvent."

This probably explains the exasperation of many people here who found their "rational" analysis not working as expected.

That was me.

The point is - in times when you are uncertain of when the market will turn, but where you are pretty sure the market is overpriced, you take a passive instead of active approach towards investing i.e. instead of actively shorting the market where you can lose your pants, you wait until there is a meaningful downturn, then you invest. Nothing's certain, but you play the odds.

Because, by the very fact that the market is fundamentally overpriced, it means that the odds are in your favour. Like when you play one pack blackjack and you haven't seen a picture card come out for a long time, then the odds of you seeing a picture card next is not certain, but much higher than even so you play the odds.

Hello, I am not an analyst, ha ha. I am also not an agent, I am not here to convince you either. If there is no profit making, you can just stay there or rent out. No one is asking you to cash out. As I have said, the transaction cost is high, so it is different from your daily stock market, in and out llike no one business. The difference is property market won't be like stock market, simply it will not crash to zero value. End of the day, you will still have a roof over your head when everything out there is so gloomy.

About timing, of course everyone wants to go in at the right time, but how many do? Ha ha. Legislative changes by Government can jeopardize your investment plan either, so no point worrying these uncontrollable factors. If you think is right to go in, just go for it. If you think it is not the right time, suit you either.

I am saying all these while, there is no right or wrong in entering the properties market so long it is within your individual capabilities.

Again, I am not convincing anyone to go in if you are not ready............ ha ha. I do not want you to have sleepless nights.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

With all due respect, the problem I have with your analysis is that there is no analysis at all.

Your fundamental premise is that property is inherently safe and hence you can choose to go in if you are comfortable doing so because you cannot lose in the long term. I beg to differ. Statistics and countless empirical examples beg to differ.

Many people who bought their outskirt condo at the peak in the mid 90s have still not seen their property values come back to par, despite the record prices we see currently. And this does not include frictional costs such as agent fees, stamp duty, inflation and interest cost.

Obviously timing matters in a highly cyclical market like property. In the absence of 20-20 hindsight, all you can do is take an objective and numerical view , and take the most rational route. Buying on faith of the infallibility of property, and ignoring the realities of the moment and if history sparks of foolhardiness to me.

Remember, no one is disputing that its important to have investments. I'm only disputing that going into property now is a good investment, and I've not seen anything in your post above that objectively convinces me otherwise.

Originally Posted by Unregistered_Making sense

Hello, I am not an analyst, ha ha. I am also not an agent, I am not here to convince you either. If there is no profit making, you can just stay there or rent out. No one is asking you to cash out. As I have said, the transaction cost is high, so it is different from your daily stock market, in and out llike no one business. The difference is property market won't be like stock market, simply it will not crash to zero value. End of the day, you will still have a roof over your head when everything out there is so gloomy.

About timing, of course everyone wants to go in at the right time, but how many do? Ha ha. Legislative changes by Government can jeopardize your investment plan either, so no point worrying these uncontrollable factors. If you think is right to go in, just go for it. If you think it is not the right time, suit you either.

I am saying all these while, there is no right or wrong in entering the properties market so long it is within your individual capabilities.

Again, I am not convincing anyone to go in if you are not ready............ ha ha. I do not want you to have sleepless nights.

Fair enough. I may not agree entirely but you made some good points in a fair manner, and I respect your views.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Because, by the very fact that the market is fundamentally overpriced, it means that the odds are in your favour. Like when you play one pack blackjack and you haven't seen a picture card come out for a long time, then the odds of you seeing a picture card next is not certain, but much higher than even so you play the odds.

The market is never fundamentally overpriced or underpriced. Property is more akin to lottery, rather than blackjack, in the sense that even if you haven't seen a number come out for a long time, the odds of it coming up is neither higher nor lower than a number which comes out frequently.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

The market is never fundamentally overpriced or underpriced. Property is more akin to lottery, rather than blackjack, in the sense that even if you haven't seen a number come out for a long time, the odds of it coming up is neither higher nor lower than a number which comes out frequently.

I agree to an extent, in that it is not a fixed odds game like blackjack.

However, I disagree with the premise that the market is never fundamentally overpriced or underpriced. At the end of the day, property prices have to have some fundamental linkage to income although in the short and medium term, liquidity can muddy the analysis. If the linkages to incomes become tenuous, like the situation we have today, the market is fundamentally overpriced and is due for a correction.

This is no different from other markets like the dot-com crash (when the P/E link became tenuous) or looking back in time, the dutch tulip crash etc.

So, you cannot precisely calculate the odds like blackjack, but via fundamental analysis, you can figure out when the odds are in your favour.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

The market is never fundamentally overpriced or underpriced. Property is more akin to lottery, rather than blackjack, in the sense that even if you haven't seen a number come out for a long time, the odds of it coming up is neither higher nor lower than a number which comes out frequently.

I havent read this thread for awhile and am surprised that it is no longer about income of real estate professionals.

I will just like to add my view that investment is not gambling, gambling is also not an investment. Some people buy 4D on the pretext that it is investment, I think they dont understand the fundamental difference.

Property is a fixed asset so I agree with one view that it will never be reduce to zero value. Also although many point out that property has become so expensive, it is not likely that sellers will sell very much below their purchase price and crash the market extensively. This is unless, the market is so bad that unemployment rate is so high that bankuptcy increase and people need to cash out. Otherwise even in moderate bad market, nobody with their pride as property owner will sell very much lower. they may be willing to take a loss, but there is also hold on to a minimum selling price.

In anycase, as someone approaching my 40s and having work in various industries, my conclusion is that different people have different preference to investment vehicles. I have a friend who is quite a well to do self-employed and can jolly well afford private property but still remain in her HDB because she is just not inclined to private property. Also some people who are really good in maths/stats/timing do well in stock markets/forex etc. They make money in goodtimes and bad times. Some other, are serious property investors and can own 4-5 properties at one go.

So I would say go with the investment that you most love and understand. Every type of investment vehicle can make money but every individual has to find his little specialty.

Agreed. Any investment that can have good yield (short or long terms) is good investment.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I havent read this thread for awhile and am surprised that it is no longer about income of real estate professionals.

I will just like to add my view that investment is not gambling, gambling is also not an investment. Some people buy 4D on the pretext that it is investment, I think they dont understand the fundamental difference.

Property is a fixed asset so I agree with one view that it will never be reduce to zero value. Also although many point out that property has become so expensive, it is not likely that sellers will sell very much below their purchase price and crash the market extensively. This is unless, the market is so bad that unemployment rate is so high that bankuptcy increase and people need to cash out. Otherwise even in moderate bad market, nobody with their pride as property owner will sell very much lower. they may be willing to take a loss, but there is also hold on to a minimum selling price.

In anycase, as someone approaching my 40s and having work in various industries, my conclusion is that different people have different preference to investment vehicles. I have a friend who is quite a well to do self-employed and can jolly well afford private property but still remain in her HDB because she is just not inclined to private property. Also some people who are really good in maths/stats/timing do well in stock markets/forex etc. They make money in goodtimes and bad times. Some other, are serious property investors and can own 4-5 properties at one go.

So I would say go with the investment that you most love and understand. Every type of investment vehicle can make money but every individual has to find his little specialty.