Advice / Opinions needed

Originally Posted by Unregistered

And that's the problem with youngsters these days. They say "sky's the limit", "you are what you limit yourself to be" and the likes, and fantasize about quick success. No doubt there will be successful stories, but most probably in the range of one in million. And can you be that one?

We are not trying to demean people from SIM, or that we are defeatist (in fearing people from Ivy Leagues). We are just setting expectations, that more often than not, we see people from Ivy Leagues getting those better jobs. Ask any HR folks and let them compare, and see who they will short-list. It's the harsh reality.

Singapore pride itself on meritocracy. Those who graduated from Ivy Leagues put in efforts to enter them, and therefore received a prestigous "brand". If for some reason or not you are unable to get that, the society won't go easy on you and let you have equal opportunities as these branded graduates would have. Unless of course you're well connected, or that you have outstanding CCAs/Internships. But if you're the average Joe from local Uni or SIM, even with outstanding academic credentials but nothing else, don't get your hopes high too up. Though you have higher chances than those with mediocre results.

In short, there is a hierarchy of graduates in the market, whether you choose to believe it or not. Afterall, it is the employers game, especially with everything now being "international". How are you to distinguish yourself from the rest, especially if you know your competitors are tough, and that you have nothing outstanding to boot? Youngsters these days really need a whack on their head to wake them up from their fairy tales.

Actually the previous poster is too optimistic about average performer can get 5 figure in mid 40s. . According to 2014 MOM numbers the average degree grad monthly salary including bonus & allowance peaks at $10,833 at the age of 50 - 55. If you can even see just your basic salary hit $10,000 in your lifetime technically is already considered above average for a degree holder.

I think a large part of these Gen Y/Z expectation is fueled by online interactions like these where people are just going about sharing stories of big pay big bonus. Social media like FB where lots of people often post luxurious dinning, travels, branded shopping etc. with the intention to boast subtly all create the impression that everyone is making big money easily these days.

I used to work in the credit card analysis department in a bank and often see the salary information from people of all age groups in all kinds of jobs. Honestly, the MOM numbers look more realistic compared to the nonsense here where most forumers claim to be making huge amounts with less than 10 years work exp. The experience I see here more resemble the top 10% of the PME market which I doubt this kind of people will all gather here.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Actually the previous poster is too optimistic about average performer can get 5 figure in mid 40s. . According to 2014 MOM numbers the average degree grad monthly salary including bonus & allowance peaks at $10,833 at the age of 50 - 55. If you can even see just your basic salary hit $10,000 in your lifetime technically is already considered above average for a degree holder.

I think a large part of these Gen Y/Z expectation is fueled by online interactions like these where people are just going about sharing stories of big pay big bonus. Social media like FB where lots of people often post luxurious dinning, travels, branded shopping etc. with the intention to boast subtly all create the impression that everyone is making big money easily these days.

I used to work in the credit card analysis department in a bank and often see the salary information from people of all age groups in all kinds of jobs. Honestly, the MOM numbers look more realistic compared to the nonsense here where most forumers claim to be making huge amounts with less than 10 years work exp. The experience I see here more resemble the top 10% of the PME market which I doubt this kind of people will all gather here.

I would say the problem with TS is not the SIM degree per se. In fairness, I have friends who are graduates of SIM that are successful. The key, like some posters before have said, is how good you are at the job and what improvement to the business you have demonstrated when given more responsibility that takes you far. The fact that TS is asking for answers shows he doesn't get the joke: It's not the degree that gets you the increase. If you are already producing work like a senior and the lack of necessary qualifications is preventing managers from giving you the proper recognition, then any degree will do. However, if you continue to produce like and have the mindset of a junior employee even though you have been working for donkey years, even the most fancy Ivy League degree will not help. Sure, you may be able to fool some unwitting brand conscious employer when you hop but ultimately the quality of work will show through and the smart manager will find a way to fire you.

To be fair, scoring big is not impossible. The problem with young people these days is that, on one hand they want the power job with the big pay that they can brag to everyone about; on the other, they are unable or unwilling to put in the required effort to get and maintain the production necessary to keep one in that big job. It's always 'oh, it's too hard' or 'I need my work-life balance' or something. Bottom line is: Success comes with sacrifice. Nobody gets to a position of wealth or power by just sitting on their butt and waiting for it to 'happen'.

Above poster is right on that last para. Take what you read in these forums with a pinch of salt, especially about their own salary numbers or ownership of however many houses. Please lah, if were clocking $1mio+ a year or own multiple businesses or houses, I wouldn't be hanging out here pouring my heart out to a bunch of nameless people about how successful I am. I have real activities out in the real world with my real rich friends.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I would say the problem with TS is not the SIM degree per se. In fairness, I have friends who are graduates of SIM that are successful. The key, like some posters before have said, is how good you are at the job and what improvement to the business you have demonstrated when given more responsibility that takes you far. The fact that TS is asking for answers shows he doesn't get the joke: It's not the degree that gets you the increase. If you are already producing work like a senior and the lack of necessary qualifications is preventing managers from giving you the proper recognition, then any degree will do. However, if you continue to produce like and have the mindset of a junior employee even though you have been working for donkey years, even the most fancy Ivy League degree will not help. Sure, you may be able to fool some unwitting brand conscious employer when you hop but ultimately the quality of work will show through and the smart manager will find a way to fire you.

To be fair, scoring big is not impossible. The problem with young people these days is that, on one hand they want the power job with the big pay that they can brag to everyone about; on the other, they are unable or unwilling to put in the required effort to get and maintain the production necessary to keep one in that big job. It's always 'oh, it's too hard' or 'I need my work-life balance' or something. Bottom line is: Success comes with sacrifice. Nobody gets to a position of wealth or power by just sitting on their butt and waiting for it to 'happen'.

Above poster is right on that last para. Take what you read in these forums with a pinch of salt, especially about their own salary numbers or ownership of however many houses. Please lah, if were clocking $1mio+ a year or own multiple businesses or houses, I wouldn't be hanging out here pouring my heart out to a bunch of nameless people about how successful I am. I have real activities out in the real world with my real rich friends.

you sound like a jealous guy who is cynical of everyone who do better than you.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

you sound like a jealous guy who is cynical of everyone who do better than you.

you sound like TS sia. What the guy said is very true. Nowadays people want to earn fast money, so that they can retire. Although cannot say all but there are people like that.

Certainly, this is not just stating SIM, but all the other graduates, be it local or overseas university.

Certainly, we need to understand our own capability in terms of skills and also the willingness to learn and achieve more before we can ask for more salary.

For TS case, I can say that he/she did contribute to the organization itself. So as one of the comment stated, talk to the manager and discuss about his/her career progress, if possible can recommendation from the manager. Higher chance to get into MA also (I think)

But from the way the TS reply, I can see he wants to go for shortcut, of course if can go short cut is good, but in TS case, the shortcut seems to be bleak. Not just because of the certification, but also TS's attitude.

From how he/she response, can see that TS seems like learning for money not learning for making big in the finance field.

These two are different thing, money and making big. Because is all about the attitude. Even the HR did invite TS for interview, I also not sure whether TS can survive or not

[1q2s3c]

Thank you everyone for your earnest reply.

I believed the conversation had run its due course.

Likewise, I believed people misunderstood me for going / aiming just mainly on MAP course. With that respect, I am one who feels that a MAP program would give potential candidate a feel and understanding what one might need in terms of career placement. Like many, how many of us actually know what we want and what we like?

Maybe, a little brief history on myself before you passed judgment. I do not have the luxury of many, sliverspoon rich parents and the likes. Used to be a delinquent(unfortunately, and not very proud of). I work my ass off during my poly days to finance my own school fee. Of course, my grades couldn't enable me to get myself into the local Uni. Starting schooling during my army days and got a job right after I ord.

I figure that taking a FT and PT SIM degree doesn't really matter. At the end of the day, I would rather learn the ropes while financing my own school fee rather than attending a FT course and enjoy life. There is the cost opportunities which I would like to bridge.

In terms of core competencies, I reckon that I'm not that much different from the local grad. For the records from past experience, I have never failed to secure a job if I've gotten the interview. The difficult part for me is seeking for that interview. I guess pretty much is down to the fact that I'm outspoken, I can sell myself(with proper testimonial etc) and how I carried myself.

The fact remains that on paper, my resume does not help me in much ways to my academic background.

Back to the main point. Yes, its true SIM are inferior compared to local Uni. But you have to agree to some extent that the world are changing. My thread conversation is asking for advice / opinions. But some came charging with a guerilla warfare attitude on how useless SIM is. If you don't call that myopic then what should you call it?

Anyway, I seen either end of the spectrum with regards to local Uni or SIM grads pay. To each its own. What I don't get is, simply, given my current situation, what kind of advice could you guys give? Not start a debate on local UNI and SIM.

Think about it for a second. Have you really answered the question? Or did you fulfilled your own ego at the expense of others?

[1q2s3c]

Also, not sure if you guys had venture into other forums and overseas forum. There seems to be an unnerving contrast to the tone between Singaporeans and others.

Be it general forum, automobile, to general discussion. There is this hatred-egoistic attitude about Singaporean. The attitude of "I must be better than you, I know you don't know, I had more experience than you so I sure win" is damn bloody disgusting and something im not proud of as a Singaporean.

Maybe, just maybe because we live in a highly competitive environment. Still I strongly believe that we shouldn't override humanity for our own ego.

Originally Posted by 1q2s3c

Back to the main point. Yes, its true SIM are inferior compared to local Uni. But you have to agree to some extent that the world are changing. My thread conversation is asking for advice / opinions. But some came charging with a guerilla warfare attitude on how useless SIM is. If you don't call that myopic then what should you call it?

Anyway, I seen either end of the spectrum with regards to local Uni or SIM grads pay. To each its own. What I don't get is, simply, given my current situation, what kind of advice could you guys give? Not start a debate on local UNI and SIM.

Think about it for a second. Have you really answered the question? Or did you fulfilled your own ego at the expense of others?

You over-reacted. It is as simple as that. No one "came charging [at you] with a guerilla warfare attitude on how useless SIM is.

People, or at least those on the first page before things got more heated later, offered you genuine evaluation and assessment of your chances of getting into MAP. There was nothing "myopic" with what they commented. Yet, you failed to take them graciously, and you subsequently retaliated with a snide remark. That set things off. If you don't believe or concur with what I just wrote, please revisit page 1 and have a look yourself.

Note: I have not posted a single time on this thread so I would say I am completely clear of any bias whatsoever.

Anyway, back to offering genuine advice, if you still require it. The chance of you getting into the local banks' MAP or bulge brackets' FO positions (please note that bulge brackets generally do not offer MAPs; they do mostly, if not entirely, direct hires) is almost zero. Hard truth. And this is coming from someone who is in the know, trust me. In 99% of the instances, local banks' MAP or bulge brackets' FO positions do not take in private university students.

What I would advice, or strongly encourage, you to do would be to seek a direct hire or contract position at the local bank. All three local banks are expanding their head count very rapidly. The expansion may not take place at the most sought-after divisions or the division that you are after, but take it as a stepping stone. Local banks practise internal mobility; after you work for a certain period there, and you prove yourself to be a capable worker, you then seek a transfer to a department that you truly want to be at (subject to availability in headcount then).

Hope that helps. All the best bro.

P.S. Not everyone is against you, please don't have such a mentality.

We have given our advice and opinion: ur chance of getting into MAP is almost zero, and u will save urself a lot of time by focusing on other positions.

U r the one who cannot accept it.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

We have given our advice and opinion: ur chance of getting into MAP is almost zero, and u will save urself a lot of time by focusing on other positions.

U r the one who cannot accept it.

I love the use of "our" here to substantiate. The downs is strong in this one.

The genuine advice is that it will be hard to get in. Local uni grads already have stiff competition, especially with the overseas graduates and the FTs. A SIM grad puts you further down the ladder. Not to mention getting into FO is about connections. Look at how SMU students get the better jobs with poorer qualifications. They have a strong alumni who use their connections to help their own graduates.