Career as Teacher

Originally Posted by Unregistered

If teachers are church mice, then many in Singapore are living dead already

Many in Singapore are doing way better than teachers. Remember when the woodgrove sec misappropriation case came on the news, many people were surprised by how little the HOD made. If HOD pay is considered bad, ordinary teacher pay is even worse. Remember, university participation rate of each cohort is around 20-25%, and MOE doesn't hire grads with terrible results. When comparing salaries, should be comparing with fellow uni grads. Is your pace keeping pace with fellow public service peers of your age?

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Most in other ministries will hit assistant director or senior assistant director by their mid 30s, and some even reaching deputy director.

I don't know enough about typical structure to know for sure, but is this statement accurate? It seems to imply the majority of officers in other ministries are ADs or higher (which I suspect is probably untrue).

If you're comparing faster climbers, then should it be pegged against GEO5/SEO1 instead?

And if you're using HOTs for comparison, should GEO5/GEO5A ceiling be benchmarked against SM at most? Think AD would have a fair amount of managerial duties that HOTs have zero interest in.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

“teachers' salaries have indeed fallen behind as compared to the past (considering the cost of living then and now” - really?? What is this evidence base for this?!

Please let’s not forget that teachers are the premium scheme in MOE with Connect Plan that has just been increased. In addition to the allowances provided.

the connect plan being an attractive form of retention payout - an "extra monetary reward" is actually a common misconception haha

in fact many current teachers dont know about this since there werent any transparent and public calculations. but if u calculate it yourself down to specific numbers u will realise...

total up your total income using the connect plan window, such as year 1 to 4 or year 5 to 7 and so on. including the connect plan payment, the total income actually doesnt differ much from many public service sectors WITHOUT a retention payout, which is rather strange

dig deeper and ask around and u will realise that its due to the lower PB quantum for GEOs compared to other PS agencies

best verification is to ask your MX counterparts lor? ask your AM or OM? they always say jealous of GEOs coz got connect plan but their annual PB is higher.. end up will still be the same

essentially...take a sum from ur PB every year, multiply by 3 or 4 years and brand it as "extra monetary reward" for staying in service, then return ur own money back to u lol

the issue here is when salaries are not transparent, there is a lack of knowledge to compare and see if u are paid for what u are worth...

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I don't know enough about typical structure to know for sure, but is this statement accurate? It seems to imply the majority of officers in other ministries are ADs or higher (which I suspect is probably untrue).

If you're comparing faster climbers, then should it be pegged against GEO5/SEO1 instead?

And if you're using HOTs for comparison, should GEO5/GEO5A ceiling be benchmarked against SM at most? Think AD would have a fair amount of managerial duties that HOTs have zero interest in.

Comparing pace of normal, non-scholar farmers. Excluded the scholars, because they have accelerated promotion.

In many ministries, grads start out immediately with the title of manager. They may be a single-contributor, or manage non-grads, e.g. dip-holder executives.
Manager MX13,MX12 > senior manager MX 11> assistant director MX11A
Next time you liaise with other ministries for school events, go and observe the seniority and age of their officers.

As for MOE, think you can see for yourself when officers move to HQ. SHs are senior managers, HODs are ADs. VPs are DDs, and Ps are Ds.

Which track is faster, I think everyone can see for themselves.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Many in Singapore are doing way better than teachers. Remember when the woodgrove sec misappropriation case came on the news, many people were surprised by how little the HOD made. If HOD pay is considered bad, ordinary teacher pay is even worse. Remember, university participation rate of each cohort is around 20-25%, and MOE doesn't hire grads with terrible results. When comparing salaries, should be comparing with fellow uni grads. Is your pace keeping pace with fellow public service peers of your age?

The general public is still stuck in the 70s, 80s perception of teachers: go home right after last lesson, shake leg for the whole school holiday, salary can buy landed house or condo in central location.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Actually, I think the point of that poster is to raise the fact that teachers' salaries have fallen behind a lot as compared to the past. Yes, there have been adjustments, but I think the cost of living has increased so much that the salary can no longer catch up.

Yes, we can indeed make our own choices. But for those who wish to have a family (i.e. 1 or more kids - which the civil service ironically encourages despite salaries falling behind), they definitely have to sacrifice work and hence, income.

I don't think boomer teachers in the past have such serious consequences with making such choices. They can rise up quickly into the SEO ranks 20 years ago and raise 2 kids, with some small struggles perhaps, but not as bad as today's teachers (who are also parents). They at least are able to still spare sufficient time and finances with their kids while working full-time.

Why do you think more and more teachers simply choose to remain single, or childless now?

To be fair in this argument though, I think all sectors in Singapore are facing this issue. But statistically speaking, teachers' salaries have indeed fallen behind as compared to the past (considering the cost of living then and now).

Wisest comments thus far

It’s quite safe to say that the market value of EOs does drop drastically over time. Why so? We don’t even have the chance/energy/time to keep up with work skills. For example, how many of us would know how to use SQL/pyton? These are critical skills in the workforce these days.

Yet, most of us EOs are chiefly preoccupied with marking/planning/holistic development of students. The most IT thing we do is to check email and try to keep up with so many updates from SLS office.

No wonder we are underpaid la. Which employer would want us?

Originally Posted by Unregistered

As mentioned by another poster...
Matured estate bto easily 600-800k lo!

There has never been an 800k bto. The max was 737k. And that is BEFORE subsidies. This all boils down to expectations. Should a teacher couple 2-3 years working really think that they're in a position to get a new flat in a premium area? Too atas to stay in a normal area like the rest of peasants is it.

Do note that the current Salary range for 5A is $5650 - $9050

Originally Posted by Unregistered

GEO 5 KP, MI 3.9%, PB - A
Hopefully next year got chance of a promo to SEO 1 soon, reaching ceiling of 8250.

May I know how long have u been in service / at GEO5? Wonder when ceiling might be reached for me…