Whats your net worth

Originally Posted by Mr Middle

I felt compelled to add in some comments (not advise) when I read your post. If not for the fact that we are living in high cost Singapore, I would find your musings amusing. On a more serious note, You have taken a very important and commendable first step in saving 50% of your income, and from a $3K income at that! As a diligent and conscious saver myself, my wife and I are now (after 20++ years of working) able to save more than 65% of our income every month. It was not always like when we first started as newly weds with housing loan to pay. We were always thrifty, but how much can one stretch a combined income of $3.3K then? But the habits of saving stayed with us through the years and now it is second nature.

The second important thing we did beyond just savings was to invest the money. In other words, make the money work for you. Easier said than done of course. We were lucky that the vast majority of the shares we bought constantly (and never sold) throughout the 20++ years paid handsome dividends, grew in value and quantity. Also we were lucky that property prices were at saner levels years back and we could afford another one for investment.

Someone asked me in this forum if the $3M we accummulated so far was sufficient or would we be striving to make it $10M or more. I am not blindly chasing $$$, but I am also concerned about the rising inflation rate. I thought the $3M would be sufficient to generate a passive income stream to sustain our retirement comfortably, but I was horrified to find that it was not so. Under the current climate, the inflation rate is higher than our ROI from our investment. A back-of-the-envelope calculation based on current scenario showed that the $3M would be dwindled down in 25 years. And if we retire at 55, it means we would be beggers at 80! And this was based on not having any major medical expenses!

Wow, be more sensitive. You have 3m bucks and yet worry aloud you'd be a beggar! Have a heart for those who don't even have 30k!

Originally Posted by Mr Middle

I felt compelled to add in some comments (not advise) when I read your post. If not for the fact that we are living in high cost Singapore, I would find your musings amusing. On a more serious note, You have taken a very important and commendable first step in saving 50% of your income, and from a $3K income at that! As a diligent and conscious saver myself, my wife and I are now (after 20++ years of working) able to save more than 65% of our income every month. It was not always like when we first started as newly weds with housing loan to pay. We were always thrifty, but how much can one stretch a combined income of $3.3K then? But the habits of saving stayed with us through the years and now it is second nature.

The second important thing we did beyond just savings was to invest the money. In other words, make the money work for you. Easier said than done of course. We were lucky that the vast majority of the shares we bought constantly (and never sold) throughout the 20++ years paid handsome dividends, grew in value and quantity. Also we were lucky that property prices were at saner levels years back and we could afford another one for investment.

Someone asked me in this forum if the $3M we accummulated so far was sufficient or would we be striving to make it $10M or more. I am not blindly chasing $$$, but I am also concerned about the rising inflation rate. I thought the $3M would be sufficient to generate a passive income stream to sustain our retirement comfortably, but I was horrified to find that it was not so. Under the current climate, the inflation rate is higher than our ROI from our investment. A back-of-the-envelope calculation based on current scenario showed that the $3M would be dwindled down in 25 years. And if we retire at 55, it means we would be beggers at 80! And this was based on not having any major medical expenses!

well, i have bought unit trusts before (using my CPF), and till date, they are losing money. Even though these financial apparatus that are supposed to generate positive returns carry risks, and I got nothing to say about that.

thanks for the encouragement, but i think i wouldn't have the appetite for stocks-picking. Yes, i have done some research on ETF, shares in US & SG, went for courses after courses (free ones) on forex, futures and options. I always stop short of investing into them - i always let my friend (who is currently in $30k debt) try and he... always loses..

in fact, most of my friends who are damping on stocks are not in the positive note as well. i would like to go further by suggesting that perhaps it's not possible for Singaporeans (or sti stocks) to go 3-10 folds returns, unlike those days when we were still a developing country. I could be wrong of course, things always change, especially in the financial climate.

i have thought of dollar-averaging the stocks, but... thinking about it since 4 years ago, and i'm still here.

sometimes, i feel like i'm a cheapo. espeically when i pass by the NTUC store every thursday, I would take a look at the newspaper posted at the board and check out the discounts. I also use my NTUC fairprice credit card to the max and as much as possible, ALL MY THINGS bought from NTUC are NTUC products too.

i guess that's what people say: penny wise, pound foolish (for not able to generate returns using the capital i have).

Originally Posted by Unregistered

well, i have bought unit trusts before (using my CPF), and till date, they are losing money. Even though these financial apparatus that are supposed to generate positive returns carry risks, and I got nothing to say about that.

thanks for the encouragement, but i think i wouldn't have the appetite for stocks-picking. Yes, i have done some research on ETF, shares in US & SG, went for courses after courses (free ones) on forex, futures and options. I always stop short of investing into them - i always let my friend (who is currently in $30k debt) try and he... always loses..

in fact, most of my friends who are damping on stocks are not in the positive note as well. i would like to go further by suggesting that perhaps it's not possible for Singaporeans (or sti stocks) to go 3-10 folds returns, unlike those days when we were still a developing country. I could be wrong of course, things always change, especially in the financial climate.

i have thought of dollar-averaging the stocks, but... thinking about it since 4 years ago, and i'm still here.

sometimes, i feel like i'm a cheapo. espeically when i pass by the NTUC store every thursday, I would take a look at the newspaper posted at the board and check out the discounts. I also use my NTUC fairprice credit card to the max and as much as possible, ALL MY THINGS bought from NTUC are NTUC products too.

i guess that's what people say: penny wise, pound foolish (for not able to generate returns using the capital i have).

just buy some blue chip stocks when the next financial crisis strikes.

Originally Posted by Mr Middle

I felt compelled to add in some comments (not advise) when I read your post. If not for the fact that we are living in high cost Singapore, I would find your musings amusing. On a more serious note, You have taken a very important and commendable first step in saving 50% of your income, and from a $3K income at that! As a diligent and conscious saver myself, my wife and I are now (after 20++ years of working) able to save more than 65% of our income every month. It was not always like when we first started as newly weds with housing loan to pay. We were always thrifty, but how much can one stretch a combined income of $3.3K then? But the habits of saving stayed with us through the years and now it is second nature.

The second important thing we did beyond just savings was to invest the money. In other words, make the money work for you. Easier said than done of course. We were lucky that the vast majority of the shares we bought constantly (and never sold) throughout the 20++ years paid handsome dividends, grew in value and quantity. Also we were lucky that property prices were at saner levels years back and we could afford another one for investment.

Someone asked me in this forum if the $3M we accummulated so far was sufficient or would we be striving to make it $10M or more. I am not blindly chasing $$$, but I am also concerned about the rising inflation rate. I thought the $3M would be sufficient to generate a passive income stream to sustain our retirement comfortably, but I was horrified to find that it was not so. Under the current climate, the inflation rate is higher than our ROI from our investment. A back-of-the-envelope calculation based on current scenario showed that the $3M would be dwindled down in 25 years. And if we retire at 55, it means we would be beggers at 80! And this was based on not having any major medical expenses!

This is the scary truth.

Most people do not realise that for a comfortable retirement for spouse and yourself in Singapore, you would need around 1M, probably more.

Some believe that their children will look after them when they are old, but you can never guarantee what happens. I know of a few who paid for an overseas education for their kids, or were guarantors but their kids broke bond. The kids refused to return, preferring life at greener offshore pastures. Not all kids would be willing, or are able to give a substantial parental maintenance allowance either. In short, don't depend on anyone else but yourself and your spouse for your retirement.

Say for example to maintain a nice retirement lifestyle (with a car, eating out, travelling around the world) you need around 5k/ mth for you and your spouse. Assume you live for 20 years after retirement. That is already 1.2M. And it does not include healthcare costs, and erosion of savings+ increase in costs due to inflation.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

This is the scary truth.

Most people do not realise that for a comfortable retirement for spouse and yourself in Singapore, you would need around 1M, probably more.

Some believe that their children will look after them when they are old, but you can never guarantee what happens. I know of a few who paid for an overseas education for their kids, or were guarantors but their kids broke bond. The kids refused to return, preferring life at greener offshore pastures. Not all kids would be willing, or are able to give a substantial parental maintenance allowance either. In short, don't depend on anyone else but yourself and your spouse for your retirement.

Say for example to maintain a nice retirement lifestyle (with a car, eating out, travelling around the world) you need around 5k/ mth for you and your spouse. Assume you live for 20 years after retirement. That is already 1.2M. And it does not include healthcare costs, and erosion of savings+ increase in costs due to inflation.

Stop scaring yourself and others. If it's true, why do I not see more beggars in the streets?

The fact is even retirees can have some income. You can start a small business, rent out a room or a condo, collect dividends from stocks, etc. Insurance will pay for the bulk of your medical expenses.

And if you are smart about it, you won't be spending 5k/mth if you have only 1.2m in the bank. Don't forget that your children would've grown up and won't need money from you. Your parents would've moved on.

Of course, if you wanna plan for worst case scenario, you can always work till you die. Cheers.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Stop scaring yourself and others. If it's true, why do I not see more beggars in the streets?

The fact is even retirees can have some income. You can start a small business, rent out a room or a condo, collect dividends from stocks, etc. Insurance will pay for the bulk of your medical expenses.

And if you are smart about it, you won't be spending 5k/mth if you have only 1.2m in the bank. Don't forget that your children would've grown up and won't need money from you. Your parents would've moved on.

Of course, if you wanna plan for worst case scenario, you can always work till you die. Cheers.

Hellooo, where have you been? Our Gahmen have been telling us to work as long as we can. This is because they are seeing more and more people outliving their savings. Your minimum sum is not going to give you a dignified standard of living, not even 3 square meals a day. It is dangerous to stick your head in the sand. Why no beggars in Singapore you asked. This is because they are all rounded by the Gahmen and sent to homes for the destitue. Dont you know that begging in Singapore is a crime?

Preparing for your future and retirement is a serious matter especially in high cost Singapore. I have neighbours who have downgraded from landed properties to HDB to cash out (~ $1M) some years ago only to realise now that their S$1M cash is not going to last very long. They keep cutting back their already simple lifestyle, and now they constantly worry about falling sick and the medical bills.

Ignore all this at your own peril

Originally Posted by Mr Middle

Hellooo, where have you been? Our Gahmen have been telling us to work as long as we can. This is because they are seeing more and more people outliving their savings. Your minimum sum is not going to give you a dignified standard of living, not even 3 square meals a day. It is dangerous to stick your head in the sand. Why no beggars in Singapore you asked. This is because they are all rounded by the Gahmen and sent to homes for the destitue. Dont you know that begging in Singapore is a crime?

Preparing for your future and retirement is a serious matter especially in high cost Singapore. I have neighbours who have downgraded from landed properties to HDB to cash out (~ $1M) some years ago only to realise now that their S$1M cash is not going to last very long. They keep cutting back their already simple lifestyle, and now they constantly worry about falling sick and the medical bills.

Ignore all this at your own peril

If having 1m is insufficient, the majority of the people here will be in deep trouble. So what's your advice? Work till I drop? Sell tissues and wash airport toilets?

I tend to agree with the poster at 1.26 pm. If $1M is not enough, most people will not be able to retire. Invest the $1M for passive income. 5% returns will generate $50k a year, which is sufficient for most people without a lavish lifestyle. If you want to grow your capital and cater for inflation, plough back some of the passive income into your investments. I feel consistent returns are achievable if one starts investing early.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I tend to agree with the poster at 1.26 pm. If $1M is not enough, most people will not be able to retire. Invest the $1M for passive income. 5% returns will generate $50k a year, which is sufficient for most people without a lavish lifestyle. If you want to grow your capital and cater for inflation, plough back some of the passive income into your investments. I feel consistent returns are achievable if one starts investing early.

I may have inadvertantly offended some forumers here who said I was being insensitive in my postings here. I apologise. It was never my intention to offend anyone. I was in a way expressing some fear and frustration that as a thrifty middle income earner who scrimped for years aspiring to one day sit back and relax and enjoy the fruits until my last day will not see my dream turn out the way my wife and I have hoped for.

Many people who are still working may not have thought through their retirement planning. For me and wife, we are doing it now because we are reaching a critical milestone (55 yrs) and calculating if we could retire without down grading our already frugal lifestyle. In this climate it is getting difficult to have positive return of 3% (net of inflation of 5% or more), not to mention consistent return.

The other worry is the medical expenses. It was reported that in the US, many families were one medical emergency away from bankruptcy. Meaning they were not financially prepared for heavy medical expenses.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

If having 1m is insufficient, the majority of the people here will be in deep trouble. So what's your advice? Work till I drop? Sell tissues and wash airport toilets?

Mr Middle is right that S$1M is not enough especially for those who do not have any income in their retirement. Yes, you can sell tissues and wash airport toilets till you drop if you need to feed yourself, if you don't, you belong to the lucky ones. Those who passed middle age and failed to have any retirement plan, are already in deep ****. Learning to manage your finance is the only way to avoid selling tissues and washing airport toilets till you drop. Good luck!