Whats your net worth

Originally Posted by Unregistered

To increase income, I tried forex and stocks with no success, lost money instead! Thought about having an internet business on the side, but can't think of a product or service that I am interested to sell. Currently still working on my trading psychology to become better at forex and stocks.

...

If I can save up a few hundred thousand when the next property and stocks crash come, this is my opportunity to make it, and become like some of you, self made millionaires! Till then I will continue working at it and keeping my goal in mind.

Short term trading doesn't work for me too. Those who do well are either geniuses or lucky fools. If there are many such geniuses, Lehman wouldn't have fallen and poor countries won't need to live in poverty. It's just not possible to beat the market in the short run.

Medium term trading of property and stocks is the way to go.

[lazyplane]

Actually, i think you must be really doing well.

5k income * say 20 months = 100k.
+ spouse salary , lets just say the same, = 200k pa.

if u r a singaporean and your wife is also and both of u r grad , then what i see is that within around 6 years of saving , u managed to get save 0.5 million for house + 70 k.

Thats means u have been saving almost half your income.
Add to that, you didnt start off 5 k right ..there is a progression curve in salary... so both of u are definitely top savers in my views....

Well done ! Keep it up and another 5 years, u will be what you desire.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

This forum is full of millionaires... so inspiring....seems that most of them made it through stocks and property.

But stocks are volatile, did you simply hold on all the way? What about between end 2008 and early 2009 when the market was at the bottom, did all of you millionaires simply stay cool and hold your stocks?

As for property... it also goes up and comes down. Although when the market is rising, the money made is very large, property can also be risky as it involves leveraging myself and paying off the loans for decades. Its ok if the property can be rented out at breakeven, but there is no guarantee there will always be a tenant! Not to mention the new draconian cash upfront requirements for second properties.

Any advice on how I can become a self-made millionaire like some of you too? Is stocks and property still the best way? Its my goal and dream to achieve financial freedom and a comfortable retirement, to be asset rich and cash rich.

Age: 30
Property: Condo (950k value now. Outstanding loan 460k)
Cash: 55k
Stocks: 20k
CPF: 37k (OA & SA)
Income: 5k monthly

I don't intend to buy a car unless public transport becomes intolerable.

Stupid moves when I was younger involved 4k realised loss and 8k paper loss on shares, 7k on useless branded goods, 15k on holidays, 30k on wedding. Looking back I was such a spendthrift. This has to change.

Originally Posted by lazyplane

Actually, i think you must be really doing well.

5k income * say 20 months = 100k.
+ spouse salary , lets just say the same, = 200k pa.

if u r a singaporean and your wife is also and both of u r grad , then what i see is that within around 6 years of saving , u managed to get save 0.5 million for house + 70 k.

Thats means u have been saving almost half your income.
Add to that, you didnt start off 5 k right ..there is a progression curve in salary... so both of u are definitely top savers in my views....

Well done ! Keep it up and another 5 years, u will be what you desire.

Thanks lazyplane for the encouragement. Actually, my spouse and my combined income is 10k/mth now which is not much. But my spouse was working for a longer time, so its our combined CPF plus savings that we managed to plonk 200k downpayment for our condo, since then the value has risen +250k. It helped that we have no car and no kids yet.

But, still far from where I wanna be... a millionaire. Its gonna be tough scraping for the second property, but I've gotta do it somehow.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Thanks lazyplane for the encouragement. Actually, my spouse and my combined income is 10k/mth now which is not much. But my spouse was working for a longer time, so its our combined CPF plus savings that we managed to plonk 200k downpayment for our condo, since then the value has risen +250k. It helped that we have no car and no kids yet.

But, still far from where I wanna be... a millionaire. Its gonna be tough scraping for the second property, but I've gotta do it somehow.

There is no secret to financial health. If you are like many others who are middle income, consistent saving and judicious investment is key to financial independence and freedom. Here, I would like to share an article by Alexander Green on the more ordinary US millionaires. We too can be like those millionaires as long as we earn an income and live within our means.

by Alexander Green, Investment U’s Chief Investment Strategist
Monday, May 9, 2011: Issue #1508

Growing up, when I got into an argument with my mother, she would sometimes resort to the nuclear option, her tried-and-true conversation stopper.

Putting her hands on her hips and using the worst faux Southern accent imaginable, she’d say, “Well if you’re so damn smart, why aren’t you rich?”

I never knew how to respond to this. Of course, I was 12 at the time and the deadbeats on my paper route kept margins low. Still, it ingrained in me the notion that the rich must have a little something extra going on upstairs, otherwise we’d all be rolling in it. Right?

There is, in fact, some evidence to support this. According to a recent report from the U.S. Census Bureau, there is a strong positive correlation between income and education. Over an adult’s working life, on average…

· High school graduates should expect to earn $1.2 million;

· Those with a bachelor’s degree, $2.1 million;

· Those with a master’s degree, $2.5 million;

· Those with doctoral degrees, $3.4 million;

· And those with professional degrees, $4.4 million.

But here’s the rub. Studies show that those who earn the most aren’t necessarily the richest…

How to Determine Real Wealth

To determine real wealth, you need to look at a balance sheet – assets minus liabilities – not an income statement. Just ask Dr. Thomas J. Stanley, the bestselling author of The Millionaire Next Door and perhaps the country’s foremost authority on the habits and characteristics of America’s wealthy. Many of his findings are just the opposite of what you’d expect.

For example, we generally envision millionaires as Bentley-driving, mansion-owning, Tiffany-shopping members of exclusive country clubs. And, indeed, Stanley’s research reveals that the “glittering rich” – those with a net worth of $10 million or more – often meet this description.

But most millionaires – individuals with a net worth of $1 million or more – live an entirely different lifestyle. Stanley found that the vast majority:

· Live in a house that cost less than $400,000.

· Do not own a second home.

· Have never owned a boat.

· Are more likely to wear a Timex than a Rolex.

· Do not collect wine and generally pay less than $15 for a bottle.

· Are more likely to drive a Toyota than a Beemer.

· Have never paid more than $400 for a suit.

· Spend very little on prestige brands and luxury items.

This is certainly not the traditional image of millionaires. And it makes you wonder, who the heck is buying all those Mercedes convertibles, Louis Vuitton purses and $60-bottles of Grey Goose vodka? The answer, according to Dr. Stanley, is “aspirationals,” people who act rich, want to be rich, but really aren’t rich.

Many are good people, well educated and perhaps earning a six-figure income. But they aren’t balance-sheet rich because it’s almost impossible for most workers – even those who are well paid – to hyper-spend on consumer goods and save a lot of money. (And saving is the key prerequisite for investing.)

This notion shocks many Americans. Dr. Stanley recalls an appearance on Oprah when a member of the audience asked the question, one he’s heard hundreds of times before:

“What good does it do to have all this money if you don’t spend it?” She was angry, indignant even. “These people couldn’t possibly be happy.”

Keeping Up With The Joneses and Smiths

Like so many others, this woman genuinely believed that the more you spend, the better life is. Understand, we’re not talking about people who live below the poverty line. (Clearly, their lives would be better if they were able to spend more.) We’re talking about middle-class consumers and up, those who often live beyond their means and then find themselves under enormous pressure, especially in a weak economy.

Some were overly optimistic about their earning prospects. Others didn’t realize that they are up against an army of the best and most creative marketers in the world, whose job it is to convince you that “you are what you buy,” that you need to outspend – to out-display – others. The unspoken message behind the constant barrage of TV and billboard ads featuring all those impossibly good-looking men and women is that you are special, you are deserving, and you need to look and act successful now.

According to Dr. Stanley, “The pseudo-affluent are insecure about how they rank among the Joneses and the Smiths. Often their self-esteem rests on quicksand. In their minds, it is closely tied to how long they can continue to purchase the trappings of wealth. They strongly believe all economically successful people display their success through prestige products. The flip side of this has them believing that people who do not own prestige brands are not successful.”

Yet “everyday” millionaires see things differently. Most of them achieved their wealth not by hitting the lottery or gaining an inheritance, but by patiently and persistently maximizing their income, minimizing their outgoing and religiously saving and investing the difference.

You Aren’t The Car You Drive or The Watch You Wear…

They aren’t big spenders. They just recognize that real pleasure and satisfaction don’t come from the car you drive or the watch you wear, but time spent in activities with family, friends and associates.

They aren’t misers however, especially when it comes to educating their children and grandchildren – or donating to worthy causes. Although they are disciplined savers, the affluent are among the most generous Americans in charitable giving.

Just how prevalent are American millionaires? According to the Spectrum Group, there were 6.7 million U.S. households with a net worth of at least $1 million at the end of 2009. Very few of them won a Grammy, played in the NBA, or started a computer company in their garage. Clearly, thrift and modesty – however unfashionable – are still alive in some parts of the country.

So while millions of consumers chase a blinkered image of success – busting their humps for stuff that ends up in landfills, yard sales and thrift shops – disciplined savers and investors are enjoying the freedom, satisfaction and peace of mind that comes from living beneath their means.

These folks are turned on not by consumerism but by personal achievement, industry awards, and recognition. They know that success is not about flaunting your wealth. It’s about a sense of accomplishment… and the independence that comes with it. They are able to do what they want, where they want, with whom they want.

They may not be smarter than you, but they do know something priceless: It is how we spend ourselves – not our money – that makes us rich.

Good investing,

Alexander Green

It was a good article, but my only issue with Mr. Green is that he's referring to a certain group who flaunt their wealth to show off and that group includes both the almost millionaires and the just millionaires themselves.

There are others who spend money because it's nice. Having a Good Class Bungalow in Singapore is a "fun" thing. Jump into your own heated swimming pool in the morning. Have a nice cup of Chinese Tea at your 100 tonne Koi pond. Your own Home Theater with two rows of seats on different levels and a 200 inch screen.

Buying that Ferrari is also fun, not because you can drive it down Orchard Road and have people gawk at you, but because you can whack it around Sepang at silly speeds and feel that engine roar behind you. For driving around town, you have other cars like a BMW 335 or Audi S5.

Everyone can have satisfying activities with friends, family and associates. You don't have to be a millionaire. Even the poor can have fun. Difference is the rich can have it at top class restaurants with a view, get together with other Ferrari enthusiasts, restore classic sports cars etc.

So overall, I think Mr. Green is trying to downplay the benefits of being a millionaire because his article is directed at a readership which is middle class to starter millionaires...

31 yr old - earning S$100k + annually, with wife its about S$200k .. have a kid

savings and investments (w wife) ~ S$300k
house ~ S$500k market valuation w S$200k loan outstanding
car ~ second hand fully paid off ..

living the simple life and we are contented..

34 yrs old, married without kids.

earning $3k pm.

cpf $90k
cash $175k.
4 rm HDB bought at $400k.

thrifty and frugal living, my friends. i know $175 is not alot, but i think not bad lah.

[lazyplane]

And i believe it is an honest post as well !

Well done !

Originally Posted by Unregistered

34 yrs old, married without kids.

earning $3k pm.

cpf $90k
cash $175k.
4 rm HDB bought at $400k.

thrifty and frugal living, my friends. i know $175 is not alot, but i think not bad lah.

Originally Posted by lazyplane

And i believe it is an honest post as well !

Well done !

thanks. from the caculator, it seems that i am a 'wealth accumlator'

whenever i thought i am better off than the poor as describe in the papers, i would come to this forum and look at how rich people in this forum are.

sometimes, i wonder how they managed to earn so much, when i'm a degree holder myself, and only earn $3k pm. i do put in my hard work and long hours too.

i have changed jobs few times, trying to out-best each one in terms of prospects, salary. the highest salary i ever had was $3800, but i didn't have the chance to stay there for long.

but back to savings, i save at least 50% of my income, with all bonus earned (since they are afterall, as the name suggests - bonus) ploughed back into the bank; hence still managed to save $175k.

but i have no life. well, i guess that's the trade off and a friend who is in debt of $30k told me this, "i am in debt but i am living happily. you got money in the bank but you might die tomorrow and you have never enjoyed life.." then he would laugh at me and I always have nothing to say after that.

my wife is... on the other hand, a spendthrift, but i guess that's how things work out.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

but back to savings, i save at least 50% of my income, with all bonus earned (since they are afterall, as the name suggests - bonus) ploughed back into the bank; hence still managed to save $175k.

but i have no life. well, i guess that's the trade off and a friend who is in debt of $30k told me this, "i am in debt but i am living happily. you got money in the bank but you might die tomorrow and you have never enjoyed life.." then he would laugh at me and I always have nothing to say after that.

my wife is... on the other hand, a spendthrift, but i guess that's how things work out.

I felt compelled to add in some comments (not advise) when I read your post. If not for the fact that we are living in high cost Singapore, I would find your musings amusing. On a more serious note, You have taken a very important and commendable first step in saving 50% of your income, and from a $3K income at that! As a diligent and conscious saver myself, my wife and I are now (after 20++ years of working) able to save more than 65% of our income every month. It was not always like when we first started as newly weds with housing loan to pay. We were always thrifty, but how much can one stretch a combined income of $3.3K then? But the habits of saving stayed with us through the years and now it is second nature.

The second important thing we did beyond just savings was to invest the money. In other words, make the money work for you. Easier said than done of course. We were lucky that the vast majority of the shares we bought constantly (and never sold) throughout the 20++ years paid handsome dividends, grew in value and quantity. Also we were lucky that property prices were at saner levels years back and we could afford another one for investment.

Someone asked me in this forum if the $3M we accummulated so far was sufficient or would we be striving to make it $10M or more. I am not blindly chasing $$$, but I am also concerned about the rising inflation rate. I thought the $3M would be sufficient to generate a passive income stream to sustain our retirement comfortably, but I was horrified to find that it was not so. Under the current climate, the inflation rate is higher than our ROI from our investment. A back-of-the-envelope calculation based on current scenario showed that the $3M would be dwindled down in 25 years. And if we retire at 55, it means we would be beggers at 80! And this was based on not having any major medical expenses!