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Law industry too saturated?

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Old 15-08-2010, 09:54 AM
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Default Law industry too saturated?

is the legal industry going to saturated by the onslaught of graduates from SMU and foreign sources? after all, this is the year that the first batch of SMU law students will graduate.

I'm concerned that this will affect the pay of lawyers, as well as the competition for jobs.

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Old 24-08-2010, 09:44 AM
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Bump! Interested in finding out too.

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Old 26-08-2010, 11:50 AM
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Hi,

I chanced upon this thread randomly. In response to your question, to give a standard lawyerly answer, it all depends what you mean by saturation.

If by that you mean that jobs are scarce, that its definitely untrue. Every single law student secures places in firms prior to graduation, and this has not changed even with the influx of SMU students.

On the other hand, if you're thinking about "can I make money now that there is so much competition?" then I have two responses to make:-

First, money for any hardworking lawyer is not a problem. How much you earn depends on yourself, your abilities, and how hard you are willing to work. That being said, if you're in it for the money, then you're in the wrong industry.

Second, the saying, "there may be many lawyers, but there can never be enough good ones" is most definitely true.

If you're considering a career in law, know that the pay for the industry will not be negatively affected simply because of the supply of local graduates. If you have been following the news, you will know that foreign graduates with second-lower class of honours are now allowed to enter the bar. Initial intakes of foreign graduates are far greater than they were before. Has this affected salaries? No, not much.

Of course, there are too many other factors to consider, but hopefully this gives you some food for thought.

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Old 26-08-2010, 07:03 PM
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will not affect the salaries. different schools have different niches.

typically, smu students get jobs in big4 and mid-tiers, nus students goto mid-small sized or go inhouse.

Asia Cup Moot 2010:
In its first ever head-to-head meeting with NUS, SMU prevailed in the national rounds to qualify for the international rounds. SMU went on to win the title, after defeating Universiti Utara Malaysia, Sophia University, and Universitas Pelita Harapan. Jill Ann and Chelsea were joint runners-up for Best Oralist, and the team also bagged the 2nd-runners-up prize for Best Memorial.

the pie is big enough
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Old 27-08-2010, 02:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Hi,

I chanced upon this thread randomly. In response to your question, to give a standard lawyerly answer, it all depends what you mean by saturation.

If by that you mean that jobs are scarce, that its definitely untrue. Every single law student secures places in firms prior to graduation, and this has not changed even with the influx of SMU students.

On the other hand, if you're thinking about "can I make money now that there is so much competition?" then I have two responses to make:-

First, money for any hardworking lawyer is not a problem. How much you earn depends on yourself, your abilities, and how hard you are willing to work. That being said, if you're in it for the money, then you're in the wrong industry.

Second, the saying, "there may be many lawyers, but there can never be enough good ones" is most definitely true.

If you're considering a career in law, know that the pay for the industry will not be negatively affected simply because of the supply of local graduates. If you have been following the news, you will know that foreign graduates with second-lower class of honours are now allowed to enter the bar. Initial intakes of foreign graduates are far greater than they were before. Has this affected salaries? No, not much.

Of course, there are too many other factors to consider, but hopefully this gives you some food for thought.



Hi, what is the average pay of doctor (GP) v average pay of lawyer (small firm partner/inhouse)?
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Old 30-08-2010, 03:57 PM
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Quote:
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will not affect the salaries. different schools have different niches.

typically, smu students get jobs in big4 and mid-tiers, nus students goto mid-small sized or go inhouse.

Asia Cup Moot 2010:
In its first ever head-to-head meeting with NUS, SMU prevailed in the national rounds to qualify for the international rounds. SMU went on to win the title, after defeating Universiti Utara Malaysia, Sophia University, and Universitas Pelita Harapan. Jill Ann and Chelsea were joint runners-up for Best Oralist, and the team also bagged the 2nd-runners-up prize for Best Memorial.

the pie is big enough
I wonder where you got that idea from, especially since SMU's first batch hasn't even been retained/ called to the bar, ie. none of them have a job yet. There are plenty of NUS students in big 4 firms, definitely way more than SMU students. NUS has won plenty of international moots, and not just against Malaysian schools.
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Old 30-08-2010, 07:37 PM
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"I wonder where you got that idea from, especially since SMU's first batch hasn't even been retained/ called to the bar, ie. none of them have a job yet."

wrong. many of them have already secured training contracts in yr3.

"There are plenty of NUS students in big 4 firms, definitely way more than SMU students. NUS has won plenty of international moots, and not just against Malaysian schools."

half true. yes, nus has a more illustrious history. in fact most lawyers in the industry are from nus. and will continue to be since nus has double the intake size of smu. and yes nus has won many awards but u are missing the point:

"In its first ever head-to-head meeting with NUS, SMU prevailed"

its not about smu winning malaysian teams. neither is it about nus winning previous prestigious competitions. its about NOW and the FUTURE. wake up already, stop living in the past.
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Old 30-08-2010, 10:51 PM
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Wow, I feel the overwhelming SMU pride from the previous poster. My opinion:

Training Contracts with Big 4 are relatively easy to get, whether you are from NUS or SMU. I definitely do not think that the Big 4 are taking in SMU students and not NUS students after speaking to my juniors (current year 4s who grad with the 1st SMU batch). Most of my juniors have got spots in the Big 4 firms. Getting a TC in year 3 is pretty much standard; SMU or NUS. Nothing worth bragging about as when the economy is doing well, the firms will pretty much take anyone with a law degree. Unlike other degree programs where having graduates go on to illustrious companies is something to be proud of, there is no link between how well a law school does and where their students go.

Awards are another thing that do not reflect the quality of legal education one receives nor affect the majority of the law students (save for some school pride). Winning moots just reflects well on the winning individual, not the law school. Do we say that just because NUS produced a "legendary" Jessup Moot team that comprised of the legal stalwarts of today that NUS is a good school? Come on, we all know that those guys had immense talent to begin with and the law school and professors were mere facilitators. Ditto with the SMU pride at beating NUS. Good for the students involved, doesn't mean anything about the quality of education at SMU.

To answer TS, the starting salaries and salaries are holding up well. But we all know our A Level Econs. Supply and demand. Currently, lawyers leave the industry in droves, leaving supply somewhat short and driving salaries up. We need to see how the new supply changes the market. My take is that salaries will increase much slower than they used to.

Sam
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Old 31-08-2010, 02:07 AM
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Unregistered @ 7:37pm

Brush up your English please. We do not go about "winning Malaysian students". They are not a prize. We win against Malaysian students. Certainly expect better from SMU.

NUS grad
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Old 31-08-2010, 12:11 PM
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Hi guys, please don't change the thread topic to NUS v SMU. To us top jc students, it doesn't matter as all local law/med degrees are the same.

Can someone in the law firm explain how much the pay is like according to years? Both in big law firm and in-house. Thank you!
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