How much are you earning per annum?

I'm 46 this year and earning $104k pa. My wife is a housewife who takes care of our two kids and do the housework. Even though she does not earn a salary for being a home maker, I value her work. I just tell her that her work is valued at $100k pa and that makes her happy because I appreciate her.

We started off with a HDB flat, bought directly from HDB at a very cheap price. After many years, I finished paying the loan. Then, in 2006, I found a very good condo deal and upgraded to the condo which we bought at $500k. We sold our HDB flat and got lots of cash and plus our savings, we paid for the condo in full. Now the condo is worth $1.3m. We are very lucky, we started off with a cheap HDB flat and now our net wrorth is more than $1m because my condo has appreciated.

I save a lot in my early working years because I use the bus and MRT to work. I also don't party after work as I am a faithful family man.

Lower middle income family, mid-50s, annual family income $160k pa.

Staying in an old condo which we bought for $400k in 2003, now worth $1m, no more mortgage.

When we retire at 65, we plan to sell the condo and buy a 2 room BTO flat, which cost only $10,000 (after grants), as reported in the news. By then, we are not working and has no income, so we should qualify for grants to buy the flat. We will then retire with the $1m cash after selling the condo.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Lower middle income family, mid-50s, annual family income $160k pa.

Staying in an old condo which we bought for $400k in 2003, now worth $1m, no more mortgage.

When we retire at 65, we plan to sell the condo and buy a 2 room BTO flat, which cost only $10,000 (after grants), as reported in the news. By then, we are not working and has no income, so we should qualify for grants to buy the flat. We will then retire with the $1m cash after selling the condo.

STOP SAYING LOWER MIDDLE INCOME.
YOU HAVE $160k PA.

THAT IS NOW LOWER MIDDLE. IT IS DEFINITELY HIGHER THAN A LOWER.
JUST PUT MIDDLE INCOME GROUP.

HOW MANY STRATA DOES SINGAPORE HAS?
LOWER INCOME < 100k
MIDDLE INCOME < 200k
UPPER INCOME > 200k

There is no official definition / delineation of income classes here.*

It is all about who you compare with. If you come to this forum and read the many posters' high incomes ($300k - $700k pa) then obviously the $160k pa your family earns is going to place it as a lower middle income family.

This is a phenomenon observed in many social studies especially in big cities. People of similar income class tended to congregate / live in the same neighborhood. And this leads the people to think and feel they are middle class even though they may be earning very little (if they are staying in a poor neighborhood) or they may be earning a lot (if they are staying in rich neighborhood). *They look at their neighbors and see that they have similar material possessions and conclude that they must thus be average or middle class.*

Even though Singapore is a much smaller city, this phenomenon does exist. Condo dwellers tend to think they are middle income as they see their neighbors both in their own condos and neiighbouring condos having pretty much the same material possessions - cars, maids, country club membership etc. likewise for those staying in HDB heartlands and fully landed property enclaves.

So you should not be surprised if a guy earning $500k pa living in a landed property enclave declare that he is a middle income guy. This is because he is comparing with fellow high income neighbours (businessmen or highly paid professionals).

One end result of this phenomenon is that the rich tended to overestimate the income of the poor, while the poor tended to underestimate the income of the rich! What this is saying is that the poor guy will think the rich guy is perhaps earning $10k - $50k pa more than him when in fact the rich could be actually earning a few hundred $k more!

But with the Internet and with people more willing to share their income openly, this skewed impression would be corrected. In the beginning of course, you will have reactions of disbelief and denials. You will also see people coming forward with outlandish claims - part of the denial process. Then come self deprecating claims of being poor/low income - part of the acceptance process.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

STOP SAYING LOWER MIDDLE INCOME.
YOU HAVE $160k PA.

THAT IS NOW LOWER MIDDLE. IT IS DEFINITELY HIGHER THAN A LOWER.
JUST PUT MIDDLE INCOME GROUP.

HOW MANY STRATA DOES SINGAPORE HAS?
LOWER INCOME < 100k
MIDDLE INCOME < 200k
UPPER INCOME > 200k

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Lower middle income family, mid-50s, annual family income $160k pa.

Staying in an old condo which we bought for $400k in 2003, now worth $1m, no more mortgage.

When we retire at 65, we plan to sell the condo and buy a 2 room BTO flat, which cost only $10,000 (after grants), as reported in the news. By then, we are not working and has no income, so we should qualify for grants to buy the flat. We will then retire with the $1m cash after selling the condo.

sad to say but people like you are abusing the $10,000 flats. they are for really low income earners, not for people like you..

Originally Posted by Unregistered

sad to say but people like you are abusing the $10,000 flats. they are for really low income earners, not for people like you..

This is a good observation. There are many people abusing the system. There are people who are rich, e.g. earning $700k pa, but they still insist on staying in a HDB flat and enjoying the utilities rebates meant for the lower income. There are people who still own a HDB flat (and they rent it out) while the enjoy staying in a luxury condo. This is a big loophole in the current housing policy.

People who own private property today cannot buy a HDB flat unless they sell away their HDB flat within 6 months, whereas those who currently own a HDB flat can keep their flat and rent it out while they buy a condo and stay in the condo. HDB flats are for the lower income groups in society and should not be abused and hoarded by the rich and higher income groups. This housing loophole need to be corrected. There are people with multiple private properties and are multi millionaires but they still keep their HDB flat. Shame on them.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

This is a good observation. There are many people abusing the system. There are people who are rich, e.g. earning $700k pa, but they still insist on staying in a HDB flat and enjoying the utilities rebates meant for the lower income. There are people who still own a HDB flat (and they rent it out) while the enjoy staying in a luxury condo. This is a big loophole in the current housing policy.

People who own private property today cannot buy a HDB flat unless they sell away their HDB flat within 6 months, whereas those who currently own a HDB flat can keep their flat and rent it out while they buy a condo and stay in the condo. HDB flats are for the lower income groups in society and should not be abused and hoarded by the rich and higher income groups. This housing loophole need to be corrected. There are people with multiple private properties and are multi millionaires but they still keep their HDB flat. Shame on them.

this is not a loophole. it's fair game for all to use HDB as a stepping stone, with or without giving up on the stepping stone. you will perhaps do it one day too, but don't cry unfair when they close this "loophole" just before you do it.

speaking of fair game, how about the foreigners who come here and enjoy everything the government is doing for them - $350m every year for foreign students, PR privileges that are almost the same as citizens', mainstream media incessantly saying that foreigners create jobs and that we badly need them, politicians defending foreigners, foreigners hiring their own kind in MNCs, etc etc. fair game too?

Originally Posted by Unregistered

In this world, there are basic needs and there are wants. The large majority of people is able to fulfil their needs. Then they desire wants. They are not happy with cheap BTO flat, they want to live in a condo. While there is nothing wrong to desire a condo, it must be within your ability. You must be able to afford it without sacrificing on your morality, integrity and responsibilities towards your parents and children. If you strive to earn more by cheating, back stabbing, lying, ignoring your children, not giving allowance to your parents, etc, then it is bad and sinful.

We all work hard to gain more possessions of this world, but don't forget that when you die all the wealth will not go to the grave with you. What is most important is whether you are a true believer or whether you associate Him with others. Do you worship Him only or do you worship His Creations and others? Remember - He has no parents. He has no son and no children. He is The One and Only Creator. He is The Greatest.

While we are busy comparing how much we make in this world, we should reflect on our human existence in this temporary world.

This is a good reminder for all humanity - ://.youtube.com/watch?v=kE7t6wnfx0E

I agree it is a loophole. A good policy should be balanced and not one-sided. This loophold will be plugged soon I hope.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

this is not a loophole. it's fair game for all to use HDB as a stepping stone, with or without giving up on the stepping stone. you will perhaps do it one day too, but don't cry unfair when they close this "loophole" just before you do it.

speaking of fair game, how about the foreigners who come here and enjoy everything the government is doing for them - $350m every year for foreign students, PR privileges that are almost the same as citizens', mainstream media incessantly saying that foreigners create jobs and that we badly need them, politicians defending foreigners, foreigners hiring their own kind in MNCs, etc etc. fair game too?

Hi, my spouse and I are also a low middle income family. We are in our mid 40s and we earn an annual income of only $150k pa. We also live in a condo, valued by professionals at $1.2m, no more loan. We have a combined cash and CPF savings of only $1m. Plus other assets, our total net worth is only $2.5m, very low for a couple in their 40s.

Our retirement plan is to sell our condo and then buy the BTO HDB flat for the elderly, costing $100k now. Hope the price will not rise too much by the time we retire at 60.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Lower middle income family, mid-50s, annual family income $160k pa.

Staying in an old condo which we bought for $400k in 2003, now worth $1m, no more mortgage.

When we retire at 65, we plan to sell the condo and buy a 2 room BTO flat, which cost only $10,000 (after grants), as reported in the news. By then, we are not working and has no income, so we should qualify for grants to buy the flat. We will then retire with the $1m cash after selling the condo.