Lawyer Salary

Just my two cents:

It's tough. studied overseas at a uni that survived the cut. parents aren't rich and used most of their life savings for me. almost got a first, but didn't make the cut. i know some of my peers took non-law modules (ie like primary school level chinese language) to get an advantage. i went the more difficult route and took mods i felt would be most relevant in practice.

anyway, I didn't get retained in my firm where i was doing my training. lots of people in my batch didn't as well. ended up spamming apps and managed to get hired as an LA in some small firm. quickly realised i was there for the headcount and wasn't going to be taught anything. firm culture was also toxic and the boss had a bad history of cheating employees and LAs alike, so i bailed after a few months along with every LA the firm had. spammed apps again and managed to land in another small firm last year doing community law. hours are (too) good, prospects are not. still find myself doing a lot of self-teaching and learning through trial and error. boss seems good hearted and does not want anyone to go jobless. however, the firm does not seem to be making much money. bonus last year was almost negligible as was my increment. living in fear of losing my job since i don't have any connections and can't bring in clients. not like that would mean more pay for me, but i have no security whatsoever.

currently thinking of leaving the industry since i am quite afraid of doing this (ie desperately clawing on to my job by my fingernails) and being left immobile once the glut goes away, if it ever does so. really feels like i'm at the mercy of things not in my control. also feel terrible for not being able to pay back my folks fast enough.

fortunately i am christian, and prayer does ease the pain and fear.

hope that others in a similar position are doing ok.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Just my two cents:

It's tough. studied overseas at a uni that survived the cut. parents aren't rich and used most of their life savings for me. almost got a first, but didn't make the cut. i know some of my peers took non-law modules (ie like primary school level chinese language) to get an advantage. i went the more difficult route and took mods i felt would be most relevant in practice.

anyway, I didn't get retained in my firm where i was doing my training. lots of people in my batch didn't as well. ended up spamming apps and managed to get hired as an LA in some small firm. quickly realised i was there for the headcount and wasn't going to be taught anything. firm culture was also toxic and the boss had a bad history of cheating employees and LAs alike, so i bailed after a few months along with every LA the firm had. spammed apps again and managed to land in another small firm last year doing community law. hours are (too) good, prospects are not. still find myself doing a lot of self-teaching and learning through trial and error. boss seems good hearted and does not want anyone to go jobless. however, the firm does not seem to be making much money. bonus last year was almost negligible as was my increment. living in fear of losing my job since i don't have any connections and can't bring in clients. not like that would mean more pay for me, but i have no security whatsoever.

currently thinking of leaving the industry since i am quite afraid of doing this (ie desperately clawing on to my job by my fingernails) and being left immobile once the glut goes away, if it ever does so. really feels like i'm at the mercy of things not in my control. also feel terrible for not being able to pay back my folks fast enough.

fortunately i am christian, and prayer does ease the pain and fear.

hope that others in a similar position are doing ok.

Sorry to hear that. You had a tough time.

My 2 cents worth that is that you should leave the industry. The legal industry can be downright exploitative, especially the small firms and solo practitioners but the large firms are just as ruthless.

Its a very archaic and non-progressive sector very often filled with old timer lawyers who think that they are entitled to treat their subordinates poorly. Forget about progressive HR practices, you'll be lucky if your boss is not borderline sociopathic and treats you like a decent human being.

You should have a look at other sectors. A decent corporate position will give you far better hours and quality of life with decent pay.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Sorry to hear that. You had a tough time.

My 2 cents worth that is that you should leave the industry. The legal industry can be downright exploitative, especially the small firms and solo practitioners but the large firms are just as ruthless.

Its a very archaic and non-progressive sector very often filled with old timer lawyers who think that they are entitled to treat their subordinates poorly. Forget about progressive HR practices, you'll be lucky if your boss is not borderline sociopathic and treats you like a decent human being.

You should have a look at other sectors. A decent corporate position will give you far better hours and quality of life with decent pay.

Thanks for the nice words. I'd like to think that I built up some resiliency from all this. Can't say I haven't been taken care of from above. My current firm isn't half as bad as the previous one. At least they pay honestly. I also do enjoy helping my desperate clients that one always encounters when practising community law. But at this point I'm working selfishly. I want more money in my bank account. I don't feel I'm incompetent or incapable of learning, but good opportunities and mentorship have been scarce.

Yup I'm thinking of teaching or doing something in the civil service purely for the security. I don't hate practice, but it's tough to grow without the right conditions and people to guide you. Then again I suppose this is quite a common problem for most young people.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Thanks for the nice words. I'd like to think that I built up some resiliency from all this. Can't say I haven't been taken care of from above. My current firm isn't half as bad as the previous one. At least they pay honestly. I also do enjoy helping my desperate clients that one always encounters when practising community law. But at this point I'm working selfishly. I want more money in my bank account. I don't feel I'm incompetent or incapable of learning, but good opportunities and mentorship have been scarce.

Yup I'm thinking of teaching or doing something in the civil service purely for the security. I don't hate practice, but it's tough to grow without the right conditions and people to guide you. Then again I suppose this is quite a common problem for most young people.

You sound like a mature and sincere young man. Which is very very scarce in this forum. Kudos for that.

You definitely have the brains, just haven't had the luck in your career so far. Have you considered a switch to the Compliance sector in the finance industry? They are very willing to accommodate law graduates, and I can assure you the pay and benefits will be far better than what you are receiving.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

You sound like a mature and sincere young man. Which is very very scarce in this forum. Kudos for that.

You definitely have the brains, just haven't had the luck in your career so far. Have you considered a switch to the Compliance sector in the finance industry? They are very willing to accommodate law graduates, and I can assure you the pay and benefits will be far better than what you are receiving.

Thanks again. I would love to. The neverending news reports on salary increments at the senior level are definitely sexy. I always wondered what no experience law grads can do to get their foot in the door. Any tips on how to make the transition? Specific organisations to target?

I applied for the OCBC Young Bankers programme and specified that I wanted to do compliance, but I suspect I may be considered to have been working for too long (if they take my training period into account).

A recruiter I spoke to said I may have to take an initial pay cut, but if there's an income ladder to climb I think it may be taking one step back to take two steps forward.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Thanks again. I would love to. The neverending news reports on salary increments at the senior level are definitely sexy. I always wondered what no experience law grads can do to get their foot in the door. Any tips on how to make the transition? Specific organisations to target?

I applied for the OCBC Young Bankers programme and specified that I wanted to do compliance, but I suspect I may be considered to have been working for too long (if they take my training period into account).

A recruiter I spoke to said I may have to take an initial pay cut, but if there's an income ladder to climb I think it may be taking one step back to take two steps forward.

Most of the entry level and associate positions in the banking sector right now are outsourced to recruitment firms. As long as they are permanent positions, there's no harm in applying to their job ads and parking your CVs with them.

I'm a little bit out of touch with the market right now, but I do know that Standard Chartered, Citibank and DB are aggressively hiring for the Financial Crimes departments. You can go on the job portals and take a look at what's out there.

An experienced, entry level position in a major bank usually ranges from about 3.2k minimum to 4k. Associates and similar positions can get about 4.2k to 5k. Just some ballpark figures for u to consider.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Thanks again. I would love to. The neverending news reports on salary increments at the senior level are definitely sexy. I always wondered what no experience law grads can do to get their foot in the door. Any tips on how to make the transition? Specific organisations to target?

I applied for the OCBC Young Bankers programme and specified that I wanted to do compliance, but I suspect I may be considered to have been working for too long (if they take my training period into account).

A recruiter I spoke to said I may have to take an initial pay cut, but if there's an income ladder to climb I think it may be taking one step back to take two steps forward.

Sure everyone's saying compliance is the place to be, given regulators have been clamping down on the banks post-2008. I think you should realise that once compliance is no longer as hot with Trump championing deregulation and as the glut in the market for law graduates dissipates, you will have been better off staying in the legal sector. Demand for compliance professionals is like an overbought security at the moment, it will slowly and surely retrace back to its normal levels.

Advice: Stay in law. Gain experience. Unless you genuinely want to do compliance. And you don't mind being treated like a second-class citizen in a bank, because compliance is no front office role.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Sure everyone's saying compliance is the place to be, given regulators have been clamping down on the banks post-2008. I think you should realise that once compliance is no longer as hot with Trump championing deregulation and as the glut in the market for law graduates dissipates, you will have been better off staying in the legal sector. Demand for compliance professionals is like an overbought security at the moment, it will slowly and surely retrace back to its normal levels.

Advice: Stay in law. Gain experience. Unless you genuinely want to do compliance. And you don't mind being treated like a second-class citizen in a bank, because compliance is no front office role.

Thanks for responding. It's good to hear a dissenting opinion. I began having some doubts as well after trawling through the AML/KYC/Compliance thread. I don't know how accurate the thread's info is but it certainly made me wary enough to stave off making a move out of desperation.

I've also been trying to glean some wisdom from the KYC/Compliance threads. Care to share what made you wary of the switch to compliance?

Anyways, words out on the street that the big firms are really suffering from the market slowdown. Anybody in there care to comment/verify this?

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I've also been trying to glean some wisdom from the KYC/Compliance threads. Care to share what made you wary of the switch to compliance?

Anyways, words out on the street that the big firms are really suffering from the market slowdown. Anybody in there care to comment/verify this?

Not true. Which street are you on? Chinatown?