Lawyer Salary - Page 123 - Salary.sg Forums
Salary.sg Forums  

Go Back   Salary.sg Forums > The Salary.sg Discussion Forums: > Income and Jobs

Income and Jobs Discuss jobs, career options and of course salaries




Lawyer Salary

 Citibank Cash Back Card - up to $350 cash back* - Click to Apply Now 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1221 (permalink)  
Old 02-01-2017, 09:30 PM
tea tea is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 2
tea is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Broadly, I do agree with your admonishment of the little kid. However, your English is oddly poor for a law student. I also take issue with your disparaging remarks about business school.

I took both law and business degrees under the 5 year double degree course in NUS, and in my personal experience, business was the tougher degree. Law was simple once you found the shortcuts. We had almost exclusively open book exams, so doing well on exams was simply a matter of navigating your muggers well and copying pre-prepared answers quickly. I aced most modules without much effort.

Business school however was a different ball game. It covered a huge variety of difficult topics such as management science, statistics, programming, economics and mathematical finance, each at a relatively advanced level. Each topic had its own unique demands and modus operandi for mugging. The need to readjust your mental capacities to tackle different subjects was challenging. Law exams really only ever used the IRAC principle.

And in Business school, you didn't have control of your own grades, due to the exposure that one might unfortunately suffer if grouped together with lazy or incompetent group mates. You sometimes had to put in the extra mile to carry the team. It was in no way easier than a law degree.

And at the end of the day, what does the average 2nd upper biz student get? A generic job starting at $3.5k. The average LLB 2.1? A significantly higher $5.5k starting pay at a big4. Within a few years, the bba grad will hit 5k and the law grad will hit 10k. I think law is a good degree to take. Easier to study for, shorter hours of study and much better financial rewards career-wise. Certainly if you compare a generic lawyer to a top first class BBA student who lands a Goldman IB job, law seems to fall short, but that's by no means a fair comparison. Unless you're an absolutely brilliant individual, you have to hedge your risks and plan on the assumption of an average cohort standing. If you do so, law comes out pretty much tops on all counts, regardless of which other degree you benchmark it against.

So to the little kid who's complaining about how boring the study of law is, I say please leave and give some other more deserving individual the chance. If you're having such a hard time studying and find yourself unable to enjoy life, you're probably not a talented law student anyway, and you probably won't find yourself doing very well in school or at work.
Hmm, you claim to know shortcuts but what exactly are they? Pretty much everyone I know in the course (even those who come from a family of lawyers) is struggling. If there's a way to easily navigate the thousands of pages of readings we're given per week, I'm all-ears.



SG Bus Timing App
SG Bus Timing App - the best bus app - available on iPhone


SGX Stocks Android App - check share prices
SGX Stocks [Android] App - check latest share prices on the go


SGX Stocks for iPad - check latest Singapore share prices
SGX Stocks [iPad] app
| SGX Stocks [iPhone] app
Reply With Quote
  #1222 (permalink)  
Old 10-01-2017, 04:53 PM
Unregistered
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Just my two cents:

It's tough. studied overseas at a uni that survived the cut. parents aren't rich and used most of their life savings for me. almost got a first, but didn't make the cut. i know some of my peers took non-law modules (ie like primary school level chinese language) to get an advantage. i went the more difficult route and took mods i felt would be most relevant in practice.

anyway, I didn't get retained in my firm where i was doing my training. lots of people in my batch didn't as well. ended up spamming apps and managed to get hired as an LA in some small firm. quickly realised i was there for the headcount and wasn't going to be taught anything. firm culture was also toxic and the boss had a bad history of cheating employees and LAs alike, so i bailed after a few months along with every LA the firm had. spammed apps again and managed to land in another small firm last year doing community law. hours are (too) good, prospects are not. still find myself doing a lot of self-teaching and learning through trial and error. boss seems good hearted and does not want anyone to go jobless. however, the firm does not seem to be making much money. bonus last year was almost negligible as was my increment. living in fear of losing my job since i don't have any connections and can't bring in clients. not like that would mean more pay for me, but i have no security whatsoever.

currently thinking of leaving the industry since i am quite afraid of doing this (ie desperately clawing on to my job by my fingernails) and being left immobile once the glut goes away, if it ever does so. really feels like i'm at the mercy of things not in my control. also feel terrible for not being able to pay back my folks fast enough.

fortunately i am christian, and prayer does ease the pain and fear.

hope that others in a similar position are doing ok.

Reply With Quote
  #1223 (permalink)  
Old 10-01-2017, 11:59 PM
Unregistered
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Just my two cents:

It's tough. studied overseas at a uni that survived the cut. parents aren't rich and used most of their life savings for me. almost got a first, but didn't make the cut. i know some of my peers took non-law modules (ie like primary school level chinese language) to get an advantage. i went the more difficult route and took mods i felt would be most relevant in practice.

anyway, I didn't get retained in my firm where i was doing my training. lots of people in my batch didn't as well. ended up spamming apps and managed to get hired as an LA in some small firm. quickly realised i was there for the headcount and wasn't going to be taught anything. firm culture was also toxic and the boss had a bad history of cheating employees and LAs alike, so i bailed after a few months along with every LA the firm had. spammed apps again and managed to land in another small firm last year doing community law. hours are (too) good, prospects are not. still find myself doing a lot of self-teaching and learning through trial and error. boss seems good hearted and does not want anyone to go jobless. however, the firm does not seem to be making much money. bonus last year was almost negligible as was my increment. living in fear of losing my job since i don't have any connections and can't bring in clients. not like that would mean more pay for me, but i have no security whatsoever.

currently thinking of leaving the industry since i am quite afraid of doing this (ie desperately clawing on to my job by my fingernails) and being left immobile once the glut goes away, if it ever does so. really feels like i'm at the mercy of things not in my control. also feel terrible for not being able to pay back my folks fast enough.

fortunately i am christian, and prayer does ease the pain and fear.

hope that others in a similar position are doing ok.
Sorry to hear that. You had a tough time.

My 2 cents worth that is that you should leave the industry. The legal industry can be downright exploitative, especially the small firms and solo practitioners but the large firms are just as ruthless.

Its a very archaic and non-progressive sector very often filled with old timer lawyers who think that they are entitled to treat their subordinates poorly. Forget about progressive HR practices, you'll be lucky if your boss is not borderline sociopathic and treats you like a decent human being.

You should have a look at other sectors. A decent corporate position will give you far better hours and quality of life with decent pay.

Reply With Quote
  #1224 (permalink)  
Old 11-01-2017, 12:54 AM
Unregistered
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Sorry to hear that. You had a tough time.

My 2 cents worth that is that you should leave the industry. The legal industry can be downright exploitative, especially the small firms and solo practitioners but the large firms are just as ruthless.

Its a very archaic and non-progressive sector very often filled with old timer lawyers who think that they are entitled to treat their subordinates poorly. Forget about progressive HR practices, you'll be lucky if your boss is not borderline sociopathic and treats you like a decent human being.

You should have a look at other sectors. A decent corporate position will give you far better hours and quality of life with decent pay.
Thanks for the nice words. I'd like to think that I built up some resiliency from all this. Can't say I haven't been taken care of from above. My current firm isn't half as bad as the previous one. At least they pay honestly. I also do enjoy helping my desperate clients that one always encounters when practising community law. But at this point I'm working selfishly. I want more money in my bank account. I don't feel I'm incompetent or incapable of learning, but good opportunities and mentorship have been scarce.

Yup I'm thinking of teaching or doing something in the civil service purely for the security. I don't hate practice, but it's tough to grow without the right conditions and people to guide you. Then again I suppose this is quite a common problem for most young people.
Reply With Quote
  #1225 (permalink)  
Old 11-01-2017, 10:01 AM
Unregistered
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Thanks for the nice words. I'd like to think that I built up some resiliency from all this. Can't say I haven't been taken care of from above. My current firm isn't half as bad as the previous one. At least they pay honestly. I also do enjoy helping my desperate clients that one always encounters when practising community law. But at this point I'm working selfishly. I want more money in my bank account. I don't feel I'm incompetent or incapable of learning, but good opportunities and mentorship have been scarce.

Yup I'm thinking of teaching or doing something in the civil service purely for the security. I don't hate practice, but it's tough to grow without the right conditions and people to guide you. Then again I suppose this is quite a common problem for most young people.
You sound like a mature and sincere young man. Which is very very scarce in this forum. Kudos for that.

You definitely have the brains, just haven't had the luck in your career so far. Have you considered a switch to the Compliance sector in the finance industry? They are very willing to accommodate law graduates, and I can assure you the pay and benefits will be far better than what you are receiving.
Reply With Quote
  #1226 (permalink)  
Old 11-01-2017, 11:51 AM
Unregistered
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
You sound like a mature and sincere young man. Which is very very scarce in this forum. Kudos for that.

You definitely have the brains, just haven't had the luck in your career so far. Have you considered a switch to the Compliance sector in the finance industry? They are very willing to accommodate law graduates, and I can assure you the pay and benefits will be far better than what you are receiving.
Thanks again. I would love to. The neverending news reports on salary increments at the senior level are definitely sexy. I always wondered what no experience law grads can do to get their foot in the door. Any tips on how to make the transition? Specific organisations to target?

I applied for the OCBC Young Bankers programme and specified that I wanted to do compliance, but I suspect I may be considered to have been working for too long (if they take my training period into account).

A recruiter I spoke to said I may have to take an initial pay cut, but if there's an income ladder to climb I think it may be taking one step back to take two steps forward.
Reply With Quote

  #1227 (permalink)  
Old 11-01-2017, 02:38 PM
Unregistered
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Thanks again. I would love to. The neverending news reports on salary increments at the senior level are definitely sexy. I always wondered what no experience law grads can do to get their foot in the door. Any tips on how to make the transition? Specific organisations to target?

I applied for the OCBC Young Bankers programme and specified that I wanted to do compliance, but I suspect I may be considered to have been working for too long (if they take my training period into account).

A recruiter I spoke to said I may have to take an initial pay cut, but if there's an income ladder to climb I think it may be taking one step back to take two steps forward.
Most of the entry level and associate positions in the banking sector right now are outsourced to recruitment firms. As long as they are permanent positions, there's no harm in applying to their job ads and parking your CVs with them.

I'm a little bit out of touch with the market right now, but I do know that Standard Chartered, Citibank and DB are aggressively hiring for the Financial Crimes departments. You can go on the job portals and take a look at what's out there.

An experienced, entry level position in a major bank usually ranges from about 3.2k minimum to 4k. Associates and similar positions can get about 4.2k to 5k. Just some ballpark figures for u to consider.
Reply With Quote
  #1228 (permalink)  
Old 11-01-2017, 11:37 PM
Unregistered
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Thanks again. I would love to. The neverending news reports on salary increments at the senior level are definitely sexy. I always wondered what no experience law grads can do to get their foot in the door. Any tips on how to make the transition? Specific organisations to target?

I applied for the OCBC Young Bankers programme and specified that I wanted to do compliance, but I suspect I may be considered to have been working for too long (if they take my training period into account).

A recruiter I spoke to said I may have to take an initial pay cut, but if there's an income ladder to climb I think it may be taking one step back to take two steps forward.
Sure everyone's saying compliance is the place to be, given regulators have been clamping down on the banks post-2008. I think you should realise that once compliance is no longer as hot with Trump championing deregulation and as the glut in the market for law graduates dissipates, you will have been better off staying in the legal sector. Demand for compliance professionals is like an overbought security at the moment, it will slowly and surely retrace back to its normal levels.

Advice: Stay in law. Gain experience. Unless you genuinely want to do compliance. And you don't mind being treated like a second-class citizen in a bank, because compliance is no front office role.


SG Bus Timing App
SG Bus Timing App - the best bus app - available on iPhone


SGX Stocks Android App - check share prices
SGX Stocks [Android] App - check latest share prices on the go


SGX Stocks for iPad - check latest Singapore share prices
SGX Stocks [iPad] app
| SGX Stocks [iPhone] app
Reply With Quote
  #1229 (permalink)  
Old 12-01-2017, 09:35 AM
Unregistered
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Sure everyone's saying compliance is the place to be, given regulators have been clamping down on the banks post-2008. I think you should realise that once compliance is no longer as hot with Trump championing deregulation and as the glut in the market for law graduates dissipates, you will have been better off staying in the legal sector. Demand for compliance professionals is like an overbought security at the moment, it will slowly and surely retrace back to its normal levels.

Advice: Stay in law. Gain experience. Unless you genuinely want to do compliance. And you don't mind being treated like a second-class citizen in a bank, because compliance is no front office role.
Thanks for responding. It's good to hear a dissenting opinion. I began having some doubts as well after trawling through the AML/KYC/Compliance thread. I don't know how accurate the thread's info is but it certainly made me wary enough to stave off making a move out of desperation.


SG Bus Timing App
SG Bus Timing App - the best bus app - available on iPhone


SGX Stocks Android App - check share prices
SGX Stocks [Android] App - check latest share prices on the go


SGX Stocks for iPad - check latest Singapore share prices
SGX Stocks [iPad] app
| SGX Stocks [iPhone] app
Reply With Quote
  #1230 (permalink)  
Old 12-01-2017, 10:10 PM
Unregistered
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I've also been trying to glean some wisdom from the KYC/Compliance threads. Care to share what made you wary of the switch to compliance?

Anyways, words out on the street that the big firms are really suffering from the market slowdown. Anybody in there care to comment/verify this?
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
advocate, law, lawyer, legal, solicitor

« Previous Thread | Next Thread »
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
From Lawyer Insider: Life is Glamorous but Unsatisfying Salary.sg Income and Jobs 31 15-01-2018 12:40 PM

» 30 Recent Threads
Cybersecurity/Info security career ( 1 2)
10 Replies, 834 Views
Aircraft Maintenance License and... ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
622 Replies, 462,716 Views
Lawyer Salary ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
8,355 Replies, 2,770,848 Views
High Finance Thread ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
106 Replies, 19,540 Views
NEC job
0 Replies, 61 Views
UBS Financial Services Industry...
4 Replies, 480 Views
ST Electronics ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
733 Replies, 223,232 Views
Third Party Contract From... ( 1 2)
14 Replies, 1,237 Views
Retiring in Taiwan
9 Replies, 596 Views
How much does a nurse earn ? ( 1 2)
11 Replies, 20,045 Views
Compare civil service salary ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
10,367 Replies, 5,690,454 Views
MINDEF DXO (All FAQ on it) ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
3,354 Replies, 1,941,634 Views
Pay for digital marketing agencies ( 1 2)
11 Replies, 2,647 Views
Career as Teacher ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
2,738 Replies, 1,654,048 Views
Top paying companies in SG for... ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
80 Replies, 98,442 Views
Civil Svc/ Statboard - Typical... ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
2,310 Replies, 1,014,026 Views
Factual Local Bank Salaries - DBS... ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
209 Replies, 90,081 Views
All about Management Executive... ( 1 2 3)
28 Replies, 21,275 Views
How is life as a doctor in... ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
1,324 Replies, 927,831 Views
Is restructuring the same as...
1 Replies, 243 Views
I need honest advice. Jump to... ( 1 2 3)
27 Replies, 3,142 Views
SIM-UOL fresh grad starting pay ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
3,084 Replies, 1,299,392 Views
ITE lecturer ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
124 Replies, 122,071 Views
DBS Management Associate Program... ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
1,833 Replies, 285,552 Views
How much are you earning per annum? ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
11,957 Replies, 3,764,010 Views
How much do you earn and save? ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
117 Replies, 18,911 Views
Working in SMRT ( 1 2)
12 Replies, 18,460 Views
Income from casino
6 Replies, 926 Views
Q: Big 4 Hiring Status
4 Replies, 703 Views
Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.2



All times are GMT +8. The time now is 02:03 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2