Lawyer Salary

do law firms tend to retrench people during recessions?

Hi all,

I need some constructive advice - I am currently a data science analyst in a cyber security SaaS firm, building models like fraud detection, purchase probability, time series prediction etc and had been in the workforce for 3 years. I am thinking of applying to the JD program either in SMU or NUS. But I am concerned of two things

. I heard that the legal industry can be rigid and hierarchical, unlike data sci or cyber security where the hierarchy is much flatter because the industry is rather new and everyone is still learning. Will the shift be difficult and I'm forced to kowtow to those 20+ years of experience lawyers? I especially hate working with snobbish lawyers who knows nothing else but law

. Fast forward 10 years from now, I am not sure of the potential outcome of my current job Vs being a lawyer. Can anyone help with a rough projections?

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Hi all,

I need some constructive advice - I am currently a data science analyst in a cyber security SaaS firm, building models like fraud detection, purchase probability, time series prediction etc and had been in the workforce for 3 years. I am thinking of applying to the JD program either in SMU or NUS. But I am concerned of two things

. I heard that the legal industry can be rigid and hierarchical, unlike data sci or cyber security where the hierarchy is much flatter because the industry is rather new and everyone is still learning. Will the shift be difficult and I'm forced to kowtow to those 20+ years of experience lawyers? I especially hate working with snobbish lawyers who knows nothing else but law

. Fast forward 10 years from now, I am not sure of the potential outcome of my current job Vs being a lawyer. Can anyone help with a rough projections?

*a rough projection (typo)

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Hi all,

I need some constructive advice - I am currently a data science analyst in a cyber security SaaS firm, building models like fraud detection, purchase probability, time series prediction etc and had been in the workforce for 3 years. I am thinking of applying to the JD program either in SMU or NUS. But I am concerned of two things

. I heard that the legal industry can be rigid and hierarchical, unlike data sci or cyber security where the hierarchy is much flatter because the industry is rather new and everyone is still learning. Will the shift be difficult and I'm forced to kowtow to those 20+ years of experience lawyers? I especially hate working with snobbish lawyers who knows nothing else but law

. Fast forward 10 years from now, I am not sure of the potential outcome of my current job Vs being a lawyer. Can anyone help with a rough projections?

The profession is very traditional. No matter how much experience you bring to the table in terms of cyber security/fraud, it doesn't detract from the fact that these skills are not transferable to private practice, especially litigation work. You will have to start from the bottom up.

You will have to work with senior lawyers who have been in the industry for decades. You call them "snobbish lawyers who know nothing but the law" - which already tells me you don't know many lawyers. Most senior lawyers i have had the fortune of meeting are some of the most wordly and knowledgeable people around. They may not be nice, they may not have EQ and they will most likely think little of you and your opinions... but wordly and knowledgeable, they most definitely are.

It is unlikely that they expect you to "kotow" to them, but they will expect you to follow instructions and do your job. Preferably well, but the fact is that most trainees and junior lawyers will still need significant "guidance" before a piece of work is up to standard. You will be forced to take that "guidance" whether you agree with it or not, whether you want it or not and whether it was told to you nicely or your piece of work was simply dumped in the trash and your senior gives you an entirely new document to learn from for the next time. When this happens, it means that your senior has to spend additional time and effort to make up for your lack of skill.

Where you end up in 10 years will depend on a lot of factors - how good are your grades? what firm did you train at? Under whom did you train? whether you chose litigation or corporate? Whether you decide to stasrt/stay in private practice or go in-house?

You are not asking specific enough questions and your plan right now is not solid enough for anyone to be able to give you any kind of worthwhile advice.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

do law firms tend to retrench people during recessions?

I would think that the increase in insolv work would assist to keep jobs for gen lit practitioners. This is assumption on my part.

Would like to hear from others regarding this as well.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

do law firms tend to retrench people during recessions?

I would say the answer is to a lesser degree than most industries but it still happens.

The legal industry is so wide and interacts with so many different industries that it's hard to make a sweeping statement as to whether a recession will affect it negatively, not or all, or even positively.

Some practice areas will see significant decreases in work, as they did during Covid. However, the question of whether you are retrenched then depends on your firm, your partners and yourself. Do you have the skillset to alternate to another practice area? For example, Listco work may dry up but are you able to shift to private equity? Do your partners have a wide enough client scope that they can source elsewhere? Does your firm have the scale to allow you to do an internal transfer temporarily?

big4 DR 4pqe looking to move to inhouse corp - need the slower pace. Offer came in for 7.8k base with pb. how?

Originally Posted by Unregistered

The profession is very traditional. No matter how much experience you bring to the table in terms of cyber security/fraud, it doesn't detract from the fact that these skills are not transferable to private practice, especially litigation work. You will have to start from the bottom up.

You will have to work with senior lawyers who have been in the industry for decades. You call them "snobbish lawyers who know nothing but the law" - which already tells me you don't know many lawyers. Most senior lawyers i have had the fortune of meeting are some of the most wordly and knowledgeable people around. They may not be nice, they may not have EQ and they will most likely think little of you and your opinions... but wordly and knowledgeable, they most definitely are.

It is unlikely that they expect you to "kotow" to them, but they will expect you to follow instructions and do your job. Preferably well, but the fact is that most trainees and junior lawyers will still need significant "guidance" before a piece of work is up to standard. You will be forced to take that "guidance" whether you agree with it or not, whether you want it or not and whether it was told to you nicely or your piece of work was simply dumped in the trash and your senior gives you an entirely new document to learn from for the next time. When this happens, it means that your senior has to spend additional time and effort to make up for your lack of skill.

Where you end up in 10 years will depend on a lot of factors - how good are your grades? what firm did you train at? Under whom did you train? whether you chose litigation or corporate? Whether you decide to stasrt/stay in private practice or go in-house?

You are not asking specific enough questions and your plan right now is not solid enough for anyone to be able to give you any kind of worthwhile advice.

I agree with your answer and respect the effort taken to make it concise and clear, but sadly you are replying to an obvious troll. Why will anybody who **** on an industry want to move to that said industry?

Originally Posted by Unregistered

big4 DR 4pqe looking to move to inhouse corp - need the slower pace. Offer came in for 7.8k base with pb. how?

Move to intl firm then jump inhse!

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Hi all,

I need some constructive advice - I am currently a data science analyst in a cyber security SaaS firm, building models like fraud detection, purchase probability, time series prediction etc and had been in the workforce for 3 years. I am thinking of applying to the JD program either in SMU or NUS. But I am concerned of two things

. I heard that the legal industry can be rigid and hierarchical, unlike data sci or cyber security where the hierarchy is much flatter because the industry is rather new and everyone is still learning. Will the shift be difficult and I'm forced to kowtow to those 20+ years of experience lawyers? I especially hate working with snobbish lawyers who knows nothing else but law

. Fast forward 10 years from now, I am not sure of the potential outcome of my current job Vs being a lawyer. Can anyone help with a rough projections?

Do it.
Senior Data scientist in 12-15 years: >$500K per annum
Senior Counsel and partner in A&G a la Edwin Tong in 12-15 years: >$2M per annum

Highly suggest that you mortgage your house and do the JD now. Your wife and kids will thank you that their hubby / papa is striving to build his best career for their futures!