Lawyer Salary

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I am fortunate to have been offered to do a law degree at either SMU or NUS. However, looking at the recent news about the pay cuts for Lawyers due to the weak economy, as well as the oversupply of Lawyers in the job market, I am wondering if it is still a good choice to pursue law. Personally, while I do have interest in the law, I feel that practical concerns are equally important and would like to know if this path still has a good future.

Besides that, I have a few questions: 1) SMU or NUS LAW? My impression is that One of them has a stronger focus on corporate law. Do employers prefer nus over SMU graduates because of brand recognition?

2) What about Yale NUS? Arguably I have a stronger interest and would have more fun pursuing liberal arts. But the fear of a worthless degree (in the employers eyes) is strong.

If you are concerned about your employability after graduation, presently the most marketable degrees outside medicine and dentistry are those from computing faculty. On brand recognition, no such issue locally.


On the second point it's self-explanatory and you are intelligent enough to figure out yourself. In deciding which courses to undertake, interest and ability to excel are the most important parameters, however, one must also consider other practical aspects and be prepared to consider other suitable courses which offer good prospect and if you also don't mind undertaking.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I am fortunate to have been offered to do a law degree at either SMU or NUS. However, looking at the recent news about the pay cuts for Lawyers due to the weak economy, as well as the oversupply of Lawyers in the job market, I am wondering if it is still a good choice to pursue law. Personally, while I do have interest in the law, I feel that practical concerns are equally important and would like to know if this path still has a good future.

Besides that, I have a few questions: 1) SMU or NUS LAW? My impression is that One of them has a stronger focus on corporate law. Do employers prefer nus over SMU graduates because of brand recognition?

2) What about Yale NUS? Arguably I have a stronger interest and would have more fun pursuing liberal arts. But the fear of a worthless degree (in the employers eyes) is strong.

Actually all the talk about pay cuts are rather exaggerated. It really only happens at the junior level, because new lawyers are so replaceable. Once you hit the 4 to 5 year mark, I don't perceive discernible drop in income and in fact many are getting much better compensation packages than years ago due to increasing competition for talent by international law firms here. Think $23-24k for an international firm senior associate.

So its true there's a slight overall drop in starting salary compared to pre-GFC, but once you rise up in a few years it won't really matter. What's happening is there's a gulf between junior salaries & senior salaries.

You should be more concerned about the advent of AI, software and automation reducing the need for many junior lawyers in the first place to sift through data or generate documents. Its already happening in many industries so law will definitely be no exception.

What is the rate of law grads who drop out of law right after getting a LLb and did my go to do bar course because
couldn't get a TC
?

Please tell me that this is not true that now law firms are not paying for training contracts: ://.businesstimes.com.sg/companies-markets/more-local-law-firms-willing-to-take-in-trainees-but-without-pay

Is the situation until so bad? It is so unheard of in other discipline to work for free. I wonder why I am doing law now. What other career options do I have?
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Originally Posted by Unregistered

Please tell me that this is not true that now law firms are not paying for training contracts: ://.businesstimes.com.sg/companies-markets/more-local-law-firms-willing-to-take-in-trainees-but-without-pay

Is the situation until so bad? It is so unheard of in other discipline to work for free. I wonder why I am doing law now. What other career options do I have?
-

It is true, but if you are amicable you definitely can net yourself in a position. I was called to the bar last month, during the past 2 years I was paid 1000 a month during relevant legal training and 1800 a month during training contract period. Allowance when studying for the bar 400 and originating summons application paid in full.

Was offered a position as associate but chose not to stay. Now working as in house counsel, pay wise comparable to first year associates in the range of 4000. So it is not too bad. You can choose to go in house, but unlikely anyone would hire due to inexperience. I would suggest you bite the bullet and do the training with or without pay. Btw I graduated from Australia University and no honours, im in top 30% though.

Cheers

Originally Posted by Unregistered

It is true, but if you are amicable you definitely can net yourself in a position. I was called to the bar last month, during the past 2 years I was paid 1000 a month during relevant legal training and 1800 a month during training contract period. Allowance when studying for the bar 400 and originating summons application paid in full.

Was offered a position as associate but chose not to stay. Now working as in house counsel, pay wise comparable to first year associates in the range of 4000. So it is not too bad. You can choose to go in house, but unlikely anyone would hire due to inexperience. I would suggest you bite the bullet and do the training with or without pay. Btw I graduated from Australia University and no honours, im in top 30% though.

Cheers

May I ask how did you get in-house position without experience ?

Originally Posted by Unregistered

May I ask how did you get in-house position without experience ?

I got lucky. It's how you sell yourself ultimately and it was mainly because I had the skills set they were looking for. During my training I worked in a boutique Intellectual Property firm and handled IP prosecution, contract negotiations and drafting alongside with providing clients/businesses legal advice. Further, my mentor wanted me to stay on as an associate, so as a test run, for a year, I was essentially running the firm (including technical support, marketing the firm) when I was a trainee. Having a good testimonial from your mentor to testify that you can run files and work independently helps as well.

Not trying to show off or anything, probably salary wise my peers who decide to stay on in the legal industry would see a dramatic increase in their salary while my salary will probably be stagnant in the range of 4k for at least 3 years.

from my limited experience seems like most employers prefer NUS over SMU.

From my experience too, employers preferred nus grads to smu grad s

maybe it's the way the students r trained

i am an overseas grad but from what i could see from interactions

smu grads no doubt could apply the law but are often lack depth in understanding the fundamental philsosophy within each branch of law. say contract law - giving effect to parties intention.

in novel situations which require an exercise of innovation and creativity to craft arguments
nus grads who are trained much more vigor ways will be able to shine
also i see nus grads can relate a topic across various branches of law
and not just applying law to facts

Originally Posted by Unregistered

From my experience too, employers preferred nus grads to smu grad s

maybe it's the way the students r trained

i am an overseas grad but from what i could see from interactions

smu grads no doubt could apply the law but are often lack depth in understanding the fundamental philsosophy within each branch of law. say contract law - giving effect to parties intention.

in novel situations which require an exercise of innovation and creativity to craft arguments
nus grads who are trained much more vigor ways will be able to shine
also i see nus grads can relate a topic across various branches of law
and not just applying law to facts

Ya agree. Smu can be a Mickey mouse school. But typically business oriented schools are all quite Mickey mouse. No go into fundamentals, but just focus on presentation.