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  #12311 (permalink)  
Old 19-06-2021, 05:59 PM
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All strawberry mah. The older generation really aspired be lawyers. The younger generation who study law overseas are too dumb to get into local law schools, but still want a semi prestigious course that is perceived to be better than the typical arts, soc science, accounting or business degrees.

But they're also too lazy to study STEM, which everyone knows requires actual hard work. So they spend mommy and daddy's money to study law overseas lor.

It is well known that (a) most of the kids who study law overseas are upper middle class and (b) law is not an overseas uni course typically offered by government or private sector scholarship programmes. Hence the guys aren't going there on academic merit.

So the vast majority of overseas law grads, apart from those who got into oxbridge, are your run of the mill rich kid underachievers. No wonder Bar exam also can fail. They don't have the aptitude nor are willing or have the incentive to put in the hard work.

You can OK Boomer me all you want but deep down, you guys know that my assessment is spot on.
Suspiciously, Part B has remained easy (driving with your eyes closed). Why so? I am glad they are raising stringency of Part B exams. I see a lot of local kids failing Part B too. These are the kids who pretend they have aptitude, come online on these forums to bash other schools for their failures. The profession as a whole should root out those without aptitude.

It should be blind to which school you came from. After all, there is a need to retain public confidence in the legal profession.

BOTH part A and B should reflect the pass rates in other jurisdictions.

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  #12312 (permalink)  
Old 19-06-2021, 06:06 PM
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Suspiciously, Part B has remained easy (driving with your eyes closed). Why so? I am glad they are raising stringency of Part B exams. I see a lot of local kids failing Part B too. These are the kids who pretend they have aptitude, come online on these forums to bash other schools for their failures. The profession as a whole should root out those without aptitude.

It should be blind to which school you came from. After all, there is a need to retain public confidence in the legal profession.

BOTH part A and B should reflect the pass rates in other jurisdictions.
Part A used to be 90% pass rate in 2010-2014. Same as Part B.

In fact, if Part A and local syllabus is equivalent, those who get 2.2s in local universities should be barred from practice until they can at least get a 2.1 standard.

Part B should be marked on a hidden bell curve to maintain a low pass rate. Problem solved. Parity and if you really suck whichever school you come from you can't practise.

Somehow, although Part A was made to gradually have a 30% pass rate (anecdotal), Part B retained its 90% pass rate until 2021. Lucky they are raising the standards of BOTH.

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  #12313 (permalink)  
Old 19-06-2021, 07:29 PM
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Part A used to be 90% pass rate in 2010-2014. Same as Part B.

In fact, if Part A and local syllabus is equivalent, those who get 2.2s in local universities should be barred from practice until they can at least get a 2.1 standard.

Part B should be marked on a hidden bell curve to maintain a low pass rate. Problem solved. Parity and if you really suck whichever school you come from you can't practise.

Somehow, although Part A was made to gradually have a 30% pass rate (anecdotal), Part B retained its 90% pass rate until 2021. Lucky they are raising the standards of BOTH.
Spoken like a true overseas graduate who doesn't understand the rigour of the local law courses. Part A is NOT equivalent to local law standards. It is equivalent in breadth but nowhere near in depth, and is in fact a watered down crash-course on Singapore law that anybody who bothers to take 2-3 weeks before the papers to study, can and should pass on the first go.

Second lower local law school grads are easily equivalent to 2.1s from the UK. Local law school graduates who are third class honours can't practice and they're already a step up from UK 2:2s, who are not graded on a curve.

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  #12314 (permalink)  
Old 19-06-2021, 08:05 PM
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Why were the supp papers for part a removed but still around for part b?
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  #12315 (permalink)  
Old 19-06-2021, 10:28 PM
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As they should. So sick of the poor standards of these foreign uni grads. Note that my gripe is with the foreign grads, not the unis themselves. Unfortunately, the majority of those Singaporean students that study in these schools just don't have what it takes to practice at the required level.

In my view, foreign unis should be limited to Oxbridge, LSE, UCL, Melbourne, Sydney and UNSW, and the US schools. Full stop. Sick of having to babysit subpar NQs.
LoL at the addition of schools from a certain country here.
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  #12316 (permalink)  
Old 20-06-2021, 03:26 AM
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Spoken like a true overseas graduate who doesn't understand the rigour of the local law courses. Part A is NOT equivalent to local law standards. It is equivalent in breadth but nowhere near in depth, and is in fact a watered down crash-course on Singapore law that anybody who bothers to take 2-3 weeks before the papers to study, can and should pass on the first go.

Second lower local law school grads are easily equivalent to 2.1s from the UK. Local law school graduates who are third class honours can't practice and they're already a step up from UK 2:2s, who are not graded on a curve.
I agree with the general tenor of your post. The hate is somewhat warranted.

But don't BS pls. You say I don't understand the "rigour" of local unis. But neither can you understand the "rigour" of Part A. You never took Part A. Don't provide a dumb comparison based on experience on one end and one end only.

Second paragraph - generally true. However, that being said, there must be a cut-off for reasons of parity. Where you would like to draw a line is really up to you. It's an objection from fairness and every single lawyer must be subject to the same exam.

Even if you say, for instance, every single UK grad must take NUS modules marked on a bell curve, that would be palatable. Don't need to make it a "Bar exam".

The lack of parity is disappointing and, to say the least, rigged.


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  #12317 (permalink)  
Old 20-06-2021, 03:35 AM
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I agree with the general tenor of your post. The hate is somewhat warranted.

But don't BS pls. You say I don't understand the "rigour" of local unis. But neither can you understand the "rigour" of Part A. You never took Part A. Don't provide a dumb comparison based on experience on one end and one end only.

Second paragraph - generally true. However, that being said, there must be a cut-off for reasons of parity. Where you would like to draw a line is really up to you. It's an objection from fairness and every single lawyer must be subject to the same exam.

Even if you say, for instance, every single UK grad must take NUS modules marked on a bell curve, that would be palatable. Don't need to make it a "Bar exam".

The lack of parity is disappointing and, to say the least, rigged.
I also agree because there are some foreign schools that print degrees. We know who the culprits are. No need to keep publicising. A 2.2 from NUS may even be better than a FCH from some places.

But the objection is parity. It is not school-shitting. I really do not give a **** about the vitirol that comes out of entitled local YPs.

To have parity:

1. Either make all foreign grads take the first part of the Bar based on NUS papers marked on a bell curve

2. Make NUS modules which are tested in Part A marked on a pass-fail-distinction basis.

It is rubbish to categorise each person based on perceptions about school and reputation.

You advocate merit. So there isn't any reason for a lack of parity - even your perception about reputation, if true, does not apply to every single person from a particular school. Many duds around in every school.
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  #12318 (permalink)  
Old 20-06-2021, 03:38 AM
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I also agree because there are some foreign schools that print degrees. We know who the culprits are. No need to keep publicising. A 2.2 from NUS may even be better than a FCH from some places.

But the objection is parity. It is not school-shitting. I really do not give a **** about the vitirol that comes out of entitled local YPs.

To have parity:

1. Either make all foreign grads take the first part of the Bar based on NUS papers marked on a bell curve

2. Make NUS modules which are tested in Part A marked on a pass-fail-distinction basis.

It is rubbish to categorise each person based on perceptions about school and reputation.

You advocate merit. So there isn't any reason for a lack of parity - even your perception about reputation, if true, does not apply to every single person from a particular school. Many duds around in every school.
My next question is also this: if you advocate merit why should the people in every school who only party and dud around be able to rely on the perception about their school, which is formed usually from the brilliant ones?
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  #12319 (permalink)  
Old 20-06-2021, 10:28 AM
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LoL at the addition of schools from a certain country here.
Delta variant country?
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  #12320 (permalink)  
Old 20-06-2021, 11:01 AM
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Wtf guys. Nobody cares about what tom dick harry on a forum thinks is aptitude.

Unpopular take: Curve and mandated fail rates do not weed out ineptitude. They merely breed competitiveness. The selectivity of such systems is a byproduct. There’s no reason not to grant a professional qualification for everyone who meets the necessary standards.

Students just need to make sure they study for the bar. Yes you’re out if school now but you have one (or two) more exam(s) to go for before you can practice. Now is not the time to let up.

Now can the kids please take your vitriol elsewhere, and just ask salary (or practise) related questions?
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