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  #12331 (permalink)  
Old 21-06-2021, 04:15 PM
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What is the value add that these NQs bring to the table tho
The US and UK people actually know their rights - they put out the work they get paid for. So law firms have to remunerate them highly with the expectation that they will work long hours. Here the Big 4 partners get away with paying us **** wages while expecting the same work because we are willing to supply our 16 hr/day labour at this wage. If we all banded together and refused to work at this wage they would have no choice but to increase wages. But sadly it will be a cold day in hell before this happens because lawyers (and Singaporeans at large) get off of working longer and harder than anyone else in some kind of pissing contest.

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  #12332 (permalink)  
Old 21-06-2021, 04:23 PM
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Meanwhile NUS "elitists" are fighting for minimum wage paying big 4 firm positions.

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  #12333 (permalink)  
Old 21-06-2021, 05:16 PM
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What is the value add that these NQs bring to the table tho
They do bring the value. In my experience as a solicitor that trained in London and am now back in the SG office to be closer to family, the 2 years' training period is essential for a law student to become commercially savvy enough to be presentable to clients. It's not just about hard law (which real corporate work is rarely about anyway). The SG-qualified NQ is not ready in that regard.

But to be fair, you have to compare apples to apples. I have the same expectations of the 1.5 PQE SG-qualified lawyers as my UK-trained NQs and I am rarely disappointed. The B4 trained hires are always good and know what they are doing, though I can't really say the same for the tier 2 corp departments, which we now rarely hire from after some bad experiences.

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  #12334 (permalink)  
Old 21-06-2021, 06:35 PM
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They do bring the value. In my experience as a solicitor that trained in London and am now back in the SG office to be closer to family, the 2 years' training period is essential for a law student to become commercially savvy enough to be presentable to clients. It's not just about hard law (which real corporate work is rarely about anyway). The SG-qualified NQ is not ready in that regard.

But to be fair, you have to compare apples to apples. I have the same expectations of the 1.5 PQE SG-qualified lawyers as my UK-trained NQs and I am rarely disappointed. The B4 trained hires are always good and know what they are doing, though I can't really say the same for the tier 2 corp departments, which we now rarely hire from after some bad experiences.
Not trying to **** on corporate lawyers, I'm sure that some of the work is difficult too. But given that most contracts/documents are quite standarized, how badly can you actually f*ck up in a corp role?
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  #12335 (permalink)  
Old 21-06-2021, 06:38 PM
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The US and UK people actually know their rights - they put out the work they get paid for. So law firms have to remunerate them highly with the expectation that they will work long hours. Here the Big 4 partners get away with paying us **** wages while expecting the same work because we are willing to supply our 16 hr/day labour at this wage. If we all banded together and refused to work at this wage they would have no choice but to increase wages. But sadly it will be a cold day in hell before this happens because lawyers (and Singaporeans at large) get off of working longer and harder than anyone else in some kind of pissing contest.
He/she/it asked, what is the value of your work done, numbnuts. If it was just sheer number of hours worked, then why don't we see delta construction workers getting paid S$260kpa to build your BTO flat?

Obviously there isn't much value in copypasting from agreements that your seniors copypasted from themselves, which is why he/she/it asked why have to pay so much for same sh*t different skin colour, same bloody language anyway

Make the case for the value you think you contribute you smoothbrained moron
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  #12336 (permalink)  
Old 21-06-2021, 06:40 PM
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They do bring the value. In my experience as a solicitor that trained in London and am now back in the SG office to be closer to family, the 2 years' training period is essential for a law student to become commercially savvy enough to be presentable to clients. It's not just about hard law (which real corporate work is rarely about anyway). The SG-qualified NQ is not ready in that regard.

But to be fair, you have to compare apples to apples. I have the same expectations of the 1.5 PQE SG-qualified lawyers as my UK-trained NQs and I am rarely disappointed. The B4 trained hires are always good and know what they are doing, though I can't really say the same for the tier 2 corp departments, which we now rarely hire from after some bad experiences.
This is a good post

Please elaborate more on "commercially savvy"

Anyone who has attended UK uni will have heard something like that from MC firms' open days but please share more for those whose daddies qualified for GST vouchers
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  #12337 (permalink)  
Old 21-06-2021, 06:59 PM
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This is a good post

Please elaborate more on "commercially savvy"

Anyone who has attended UK uni will have heard something like that from MC firms' open days but please share more for those whose daddies qualified for GST vouchers
Means know what the goal of the client is. Donít just quote the law. At the end of the day everything is about risk and how much of it the client bear to achieve that goal.

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  #12338 (permalink)  
Old 21-06-2021, 07:21 PM
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He/she/it asked, what is the value of your work done, numbnuts. If it was just sheer number of hours worked, then why don't we see delta construction workers getting paid S$260kpa to build your BTO flat?

Obviously there isn't much value in copypasting from agreements that your seniors copypasted from themselves, which is why he/she/it asked why have to pay so much for same sh*t different skin colour, same bloody language anyway

Make the case for the value you think you contribute you smoothbrained moron
Basic supply and demand. You can get plenty of cheap manual labour since foe them working in SG and earning their **** pay beats whatever they can get back home even as a graduate. Law is grindy as hell and more than anything you just need (1) the qualifications and (2) the stomach for the work and the hours. Value wise we have plenty meeting both conditions (1) and (2), hence the low pay in the Singapore market. And condition (1) can be completely subjective too - the magic circle for instance may only wish to recruit from the russell group, or the white shoes from the ivy leagues. Which is their prerogative, but it also means they have to fork out the dough. SG law firms don't really care about the universities one graduates from, which results in great supply and low wages.

THe truth is that value is an artificial concept anyway - if someone needs your services and you are amongst the few who can provide them then you would naturally have value and be paid higher. And these services can be entirely subjective and ridiculous - heck an e-girl selling her bath water to simps possibly provides a lot more value to the world by providing sexual pleasure than some ambulance chasing lawyers.

Btw resorting to ad hominen attacks is not a great display of your intelligence lol. I would have thought anyone legally trained would not resort to such basic logical fallacies.
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  #12339 (permalink)  
Old 21-06-2021, 07:38 PM
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Not trying to **** on corporate lawyers, I'm sure that some of the work is difficult too. But given that most contracts/documents are quite standarized, how badly can you actually f*ck up in a corp role?
Can all these posers stop commenting on a forum meant for lawyers? We need more constructive conversations with the benefit of anonymity to educate the wage slave model within the sg legal industry. Paying the same wages as what employers paid 10 years ago cannot be right.
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  #12340 (permalink)  
Old 21-06-2021, 09:02 PM
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is it necessary to be called if you want to explore a career in house? can you choose not to do the bar exams and just apply for legal roles in companies with your llb
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