Quant Finance Jobs in Asian Bank - Page 3 - Salary.sg Forums
Salary.sg Forums  

Go Back   Salary.sg Forums > The Salary.sg Discussion Forums: > Income and Jobs

Income and Jobs Discuss jobs, career options and of course salaries




Quant Finance Jobs in Asian Bank

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #21 (permalink)  
Old 14-04-2016, 12:19 AM
Unregistered
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
i am not a quant and not working in financial industry, but i've been looking into a mine into a quant kind of role since 2012, and eventually give up in 2014. this is what i feel about the quant market in singapore. btw my background is EE and i did both gpu and fpga stuff for large scale high performance computing and low latency, near realtime application, plus i self studied stochastic calculus, derivative pricing and those quant stuff. so i am fairly familier with the industry.

during my 2 years trying to break into quant finance, i notice a big difference of quant position in singapore and those in london or nyc. most sg quant role ask for execl, sometimes vba as well, while most quant position in london and nyc ask c++, with a few java. i think this clearly shows that the real quant role as TS meant is not in existence in local banks. there're a couple quant role locally i remember asking more advanced technical skills, almost all from algo trading firm like virtu, or kcg.

i know a ntu physics phd whose thesis was on derivatives and liquidity modeling. she told me she did a master in financial engineering and could not find a job, so she continued with a phd, and still cannot find a quant job. eventually she joined an internet tech firm, and find some of the skills r still relevant and useful.

i myself tried to switch from ee to quant for 2 years, and eventually gave up, and switch to data science, which has a lot of demand right now.

i would suggest the TS while continue to.look for quant job, give data science a try. seriously it is much easier in terms of the math or statistics involved. i think quant finance is shrinking worldwide, may well give data analytics a shot
This is the market reality I was alluding to earlier. Thanks for sharing.

There's just way too many people looking for quant jobs in the banks and the banks themselves are spoilt for choice and are really looking for other qualities like network, some sort of business related achievement or prior experience. They aren't interested in a PhD guy like TS telling people how relevant his programming or academic PhD is.

Reply With Quote
  #22 (permalink)  
Old 14-04-2016, 08:58 AM
Unregistered
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
This is the market reality I was alluding to earlier. Thanks for sharing.

There's just way too many people looking for quant jobs in the banks and the banks themselves are spoilt for choice and are really looking for other qualities like network, some sort of business related achievement or prior experience. They aren't interested in a PhD guy like TS telling people how relevant his programming or academic PhD is.
Yup, I also second your opinion about the quant job market in Singapore. I occasionally browse through the bulge bracket banks' career section and very few, if not none, advertise quantitative modelling roles. Such work is done in NYC or London.

Further more, I think by nature quantitative trading has reached a point where you'll have to be that 0.5 percentile guy to have an edge in the market, thereby be employable. A little specifics here.

If we talk about algorithmic trading, the technology has matured to the point where in order for you to be relevant, you'll need to edge of your competitors by executing trades 100ms faster. In order for you to achieve that, you'll probably need years and years of testing different infrastructure (FPGA, GPU) or devising different algorithms (multithreading). I worked at a few companies where you could have a guy spend 6 months trying to gain this extra bit of speed but still not succeed.

While the TS has a PhD, I believe in his ability to conduct research. I also believe that he'll have to start from ground zero to think of novel ways to add value to the fund or bank. Really, companies will bring him on board if they project that he'll be that right guy to eventually add value in the future, like 2 years.

It's really betting on his ability to achieve something that is not yet defined. And that is a hard proposition to convince an employer to do.

Reply With Quote
  #23 (permalink)  
Old 14-04-2016, 11:38 AM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Singapore
Posts: 6
TheSpartanguy is on a distinguished road
Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Good insight. I'll go a step further and say that the quant work the TS is looking for is NOT the quant work in wealth management. If I am not wrong, wealth management is all about sales and asset allocation. There is NO quant work.

Basically, wealth management is to allocate capital to various funds, can be discretionary macro, long short equities OR quant funds. The TS is looking for work in one of these quant funds. So don't both with wealth management.

Also, he mentioned about derivative pricing which is not a fund strategy. Derivative pricing is done by the banks. But I get what you mean by giving him alternative options.

I agree with you that the industry is shrinking, more so in Singapore. I used to search quantiative analyst and quantiative developer jobs in Singapore and they're becoming less and less.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Yup, I also second your opinion about the quant job market in Singapore. I occasionally browse through the bulge bracket banks' career section and very few, if not none, advertise quantitative modelling roles. Such work is done in NYC or London.

Further more, I think by nature quantitative trading has reached a point where you'll have to be that 0.5 percentile guy to have an edge in the market, thereby be employable. A little specifics here.

If we talk about algorithmic trading, the technology has matured to the point where in order for you to be relevant, you'll need to edge of your competitors by executing trades 100ms faster. In order for you to achieve that, you'll probably need years and years of testing different infrastructure (FPGA, GPU) or devising different algorithms (multithreading). I worked at a few companies where you could have a guy spend 6 months trying to gain this extra bit of speed but still not succeed.

While the TS has a PhD, I believe in his ability to conduct research. I also believe that he'll have to start from ground zero to think of novel ways to add value to the fund or bank. Really, companies will bring him on board if they project that he'll be that right guy to eventually add value in the future, like 2 years.

It's really betting on his ability to achieve something that is not yet defined. And that is a hard proposition to convince an employer to do.
Thanks a lot. You have put it perfectly. I cannot claim to be anywhere near the top percentile of candidates in terms of anything. My selling points are basically my strong mathematics and domain knowledge (how that knowledge transforms to bottom line PnL is yet to be tested), programming and my ability to do research on topics and develop it by original thinking.

So if anyone hires me, it has to be essentially based on evidence of mathematical knowledge (if they care about research publications etc.) and a promise of value in the future, not a proven track record in the domain of trading.

That said, I had a few motivations behind this thread, no offence intended to anyone. Sorry for making my reasons so long winded, and thanks for reading if you do.

  1. I attended two career events in the quant divisions of J. P. Morgan and Barclays, intended for fresh Ph.D. graduates in non-finance but quantitative fields. The speaker at J. P. Morgan Hong Kong, for example, did his Ph.D. in physics, although about ten years back. Those people made the selection sound a little bit easier than I find it here. I fully expected to be grilled at the interview with questions from geometric Brownian motions to Ito's integral etc. and hoped that my academic credential could get me to the interview. But there was no indication that I have to develop a .1% faster algo before I join. But maybe it is their duty to be extra nice at career events and make it all look like a cakewalk.
  2. I also figured that banks like Goldman to J. P. Morgan etc. are true behemoths, whether it is London, NYC or Singapore, and graduates from Stanford to MIT line up for those positions. Hence, my somewhat reduced expectation at Asian Banks, e.g. DBS or any other second tier banks like RBS etc. This is not meant to question anyone's credibility, but just reality as I felt it.
  3. I saw a number of LikedIn profiles from similar or someone less impressive educational backgrounds working as Quants in investment banks, in HK and in Singapore. I do not have a masters in quantitative finance, but by self-study, I have mastered a number of important topics. I am not claiming it to be easy, but I felt I can convince a manager that I can learn fast and by myself even if my degree does not say quantitative finance. Now, it is possible that those guys had developed some impressive trading algorithm before they graduated, but kinda unlikely.
  4. And this is the most relevant one. The websites of foreign banks like JPM, GS seem much more well-organised to quickly match my credentials with the open positions. This is not a job offer, but the application processes are very smooth and easy with detailed job descriptions, expectations ec. So it does not leave any ambiguity whether I am applying for the correct position. This is what I found missing in DBS for example. I did not ask for any secret process to give me an easy pass, but merely the standard application process for fresher quants as found in the JPM website. I should have made it clearer earlier.

Reply With Quote
  #24 (permalink)  
Old 14-04-2016, 02:57 PM
Unregistered
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSpartanguy View Post
Thanks a lot. You have put it perfectly. I cannot claim to be anywhere near the top percentile of candidates in terms of anything. My selling points are basically my strong mathematics and domain knowledge (how that knowledge transforms to bottom line PnL is yet to be tested), programming and my ability to do research on topics and develop it by original thinking.

So if anyone hires me, it has to be essentially based on evidence of mathematical knowledge (if they care about research publications etc.) and a promise of value in the future, not a proven track record in the domain of trading.

That said, I had a few motivations behind this thread, no offence intended to anyone. Sorry for making my reasons so long winded, and thanks for reading if you do.

  1. I attended two career events in the quant divisions of J. P. Morgan and Barclays, intended for fresh Ph.D. graduates in non-finance but quantitative fields. The speaker at J. P. Morgan Hong Kong, for example, did his Ph.D. in physics, although about ten years back. Those people made the selection sound a little bit easier than I find it here. I fully expected to be grilled at the interview with questions from geometric Brownian motions to Ito's integral etc. and hoped that my academic credential could get me to the interview. But there was no indication that I have to develop a .1% faster algo before I join. But maybe it is their duty to be extra nice at career events and make it all look like a cakewalk.
  2. I also figured that banks like Goldman to J. P. Morgan etc. are true behemoths, whether it is London, NYC or Singapore, and graduates from Stanford to MIT line up for those positions. Hence, my somewhat reduced expectation at Asian Banks, e.g. DBS or any other second tier banks like RBS etc. This is not meant to question anyone's credibility, but just reality as I felt it.
  3. I saw a number of LikedIn profiles from similar or someone less impressive educational backgrounds working as Quants in investment banks, in HK and in Singapore. I do not have a masters in quantitative finance, but by self-study, I have mastered a number of important topics. I am not claiming it to be easy, but I felt I can convince a manager that I can learn fast and by myself even if my degree does not say quantitative finance. Now, it is possible that those guys had developed some impressive trading algorithm before they graduated, but kinda unlikely.
  4. And this is the most relevant one. The websites of foreign banks like JPM, GS seem much more well-organised to quickly match my credentials with the open positions. This is not a job offer, but the application processes are very smooth and easy with detailed job descriptions, expectations ec. So it does not leave any ambiguity whether I am applying for the correct position. This is what I found missing in DBS for example. I did not ask for any secret process to give me an easy pass, but merely the standard application process for fresher quants as found in the JPM website. I should have made it clearer earlier.
ts i'm guessing u never work in a competitive place before right?

here's how the deal works for niche and high paying positions: they have to look for u, not u look for them in some website application form. if u need to ask online chances are gone case liao.

lets say i from barclays hiring for 1 fresh entry quant, i send out headhunters, send ppl to do campus roadshow, put job ads etc. i get 300 cv of various shapes and sizes all over the world. what will a normal hirer do?

1) go through the 300 see if anyone i know
2) filter out those with relevant exp
3) filer out those with relevant qualification
4) look for the best, preferably those with something beyond studies to show
5) take the short listed 10 cvs and ask ard the industry anyone got recommendations
6) cut down to 5 interviews
7) pick the 1 i like best.

do u think ur cv is gonna make it to interview stage?

but i tell u even above is optimistic scenario liao. many times the interviews are for show just to have proper documentation & governance. they already identify who they want before they even announce the opening. this happens in ib fo and trading jobs all the time.
Reply With Quote
  #25 (permalink)  
Old 14-04-2016, 03:15 PM
Unregistered
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
1) go through the 300 see if anyone i know
2) filter out those with relevant exp
3) filer out those with relevant qualification
4) look for the best, preferably those with something beyond studies to show
5) take the short listed 10 cvs and ask ard the industry anyone got recommendations
6) cut down to 5 interviews
7) pick the 1 i like best.
I agree with your 1 to 7. But I disagree with your opinion that for all high paying and exclusive jobs, it's the manager that seeks out the candidates.

You are right in some ways. But in line with what the TS is looking for, the job applicant applying method does work, provided your resume and interview meets 1 to 7.

I'm speaking this for the entry level jobs at investment banks and funds, FO positions, quant or not. I believe you agree with me that the selection process is structured - applications opens through school recruitment pages or on website. And they hire in seasons, always like a mid-year intake. Those hired are the ones that has APPLIED THEMSELVES.

Your view is correct for like a 15 years experience portfolio manager or manging director. Yes, headhunters does facilitate the process. But for high paying entry level or 3 years experience jobs in FO finance, the traditional application through website does work. Again, assuming your resume is up to the mark. But there isn't the need for head hunters.
Reply With Quote
  #26 (permalink)  
Old 14-04-2016, 03:54 PM
Unregistered
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
I agree with your 1 to 7. But I disagree with your opinion that for all high paying and exclusive jobs, it's the manager that seeks out the candidates.

You are right in some ways. But in line with what the TS is looking for, the job applicant applying method does work, provided your resume and interview meets 1 to 7.

I'm speaking this for the entry level jobs at investment banks and funds, FO positions, quant or not. I believe you agree with me that the selection process is structured - applications opens through school recruitment pages or on website. And they hire in seasons, always like a mid-year intake. Those hired are the ones that has APPLIED THEMSELVES.

Your view is correct for like a 15 years experience portfolio manager or manging director. Yes, headhunters does facilitate the process. But for high paying entry level or 3 years experience jobs in FO finance, the traditional application through website does work. Again, assuming your resume is up to the mark. But there isn't the need for head hunters.
sorry i not clear.

of course big banks definitely must follow process. but a lot of times is many things are already discuss outside and then finally they just ask the candidate to apply officially so that they can proceed.

yar for entry position sometimes cold applicants can also get in provided they meet the all the conditions. my comment just generalize, not meant to say all cases like that.

can apply also no harm, but he needs luck beyond 3-sigma to get in. long story short, ts gone case liao.
Reply With Quote

  #27 (permalink)  
Old 14-04-2016, 06:46 PM
Unregistered
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Why always got this kind of post claiming passion in investment banking but somehow no effort made to network in the industry or go get relevant exposure.
Reply With Quote
  #28 (permalink)  
Old 14-04-2016, 07:11 PM
Unregistered
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

To the TS, why don't you just apply all and see what you get?

I have friends in FO who have never attended networking sessions but yet get called up for interviews.

Instead of day-dreaming or asking if you have a chance, just whack and see what you get? It's similar to applying to an ivy league school. If you're an average, and not genius level candidate, sometimes you get one school but not another. Say you get Brown but not Cornell and vice versa.

Just apply all and prepare like mad for interviews. Of course, if you can network your way inside, that would be best.
Reply With Quote
  #29 (permalink)  
Old 14-04-2016, 08:13 PM
Unregistered
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
To the TS, why don't you just apply all and see what you get?

I have friends in FO who have never attended networking sessions but yet get called up for interviews.

Instead of day-dreaming or asking if you have a chance, just whack and see what you get? It's similar to applying to an ivy league school. If you're an average, and not genius level candidate, sometimes you get one school but not another. Say you get Brown but not Cornell and vice versa.

Just apply all and prepare like mad for interviews. Of course, if you can network your way inside, that would be best.
Apply like mad with who? In this recession environment no bank in sg is recruiting for quant, at least not through usual job portal channels. Anyhow apply jobs you not interested is just wasting both party time.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
dbs, freshers, graduates, job search, quant finance

« Previous Thread | Next Thread »
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Career as a quant developer/analyst in Singapore ravonboy Income and Jobs 43 25-01-2021 11:17 PM
More Jobs For Locals At The New National Jobs Bank admin Income and Jobs 2 31-07-2014 05:08 PM
Bank Jobs finderskeepers Income and Jobs 0 27-05-2014 05:53 PM
Seeking Advice For Jobs In Finance Sector jerrykoh82 Income and Jobs 60 29-10-2013 11:22 PM
Banking and Finance Jobs Preferred Salary.sg Income and Jobs 1 11-01-2008 02:02 AM

» 30 Recent Threads
NCS (SingTel subsidiary) ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
1,508 Replies, 1,237,610 Views
DSTA (under Mindef) ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
1,639 Replies, 1,473,235 Views
Q: Big4 - Yearly salary increment ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
18,145 Replies, 5,482,386 Views
Career as Teacher ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
11,724 Replies, 7,162,507 Views
How is life as a doctor in... ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
7,557 Replies, 3,624,110 Views
IMDA (under MCI) ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
1,357 Replies, 700,676 Views
Roles in accenture singapore ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
8,109 Replies, 2,559,764 Views
Micron starting pay ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
708 Replies, 423,474 Views
ST Electronics ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
3,936 Replies, 1,663,095 Views
LTA (Land Transport Authority) ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
886 Replies, 472,077 Views
Ex-MOE Teachers ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
432 Replies, 526,757 Views
MAS for Mid Career Professionals ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
2,305 Replies, 1,167,860 Views
DBS Graduate Associate Program ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
2,302 Replies, 1,026,152 Views
Factual Local Bank Salaries - DBS... ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
1,936 Replies, 1,547,362 Views
DBS ACE Programme ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
164 Replies, 87,608 Views
Lawyer Salary ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
21,401 Replies, 10,803,560 Views
GIC offer ( 1 2 3)
21 Replies, 1,563 Views
MINDEF DXO (All FAQ on it) ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
6,057 Replies, 4,902,273 Views
AML/Compliance/KYC professionals... ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
1,866 Replies, 1,275,710 Views
HTX (Home Team Science and... ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
941 Replies, 452,374 Views
Work culture in IHiS ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
791 Replies, 591,357 Views
Compare civil service salary ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
16,505 Replies, 12,916,793 Views
How much savings do you have? ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
1,343 Replies, 845,784 Views
Civil Svc/ Statboard - Typical... ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
6,401 Replies, 3,972,993 Views
MOH Holdings ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
77 Replies, 52,462 Views
Hospital (Private or Public)... ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
840 Replies, 481,079 Views
Compilation of MAs/Analysts Gross... ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
1,271 Replies, 741,447 Views
ITE Polytechnic Scheme ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
356 Replies, 402,629 Views
Queries about Cpib application ( 1 2 3... Last Page)
1,400 Replies, 933,721 Views
Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.2



All times are GMT +8. The time now is 07:56 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2