Career as Teacher

Originally Posted by JustAnotherPrimaryTeacher

Did you declare your working experience prior to joining PGDE?

Nevertheless, the post earlier is right. As long as they are put into GEO3 the moment they start, it is not pure PGDE (where someone e.g. on Teacher Scholar Programme or those direct uni students who goes PGDE right after their degree from another university), in these cases we will term these 'GEO3s' as mid career already. Because they are in GEO3 the moment they join.

Everyone else, as long as non-mid career, starts together at GEO2, with similar pay.

For your situation, am not really sure already. Maybe you can call up HR to just check. Maybe 2 years outside working experience not enough to go GEO3, but your starting salary may be already higher (e.g. you're female but your starting salary is same as NS male grad)

Yes I declared. I checked my pay advice. Fair enough, I did start at 4.1k (female). I started in March and on that same year in Dec I received an increment in my base pay. The following year, in April, I received another merit increment. So in all I received two increments within a year of service. I guess my work experience is recognised, just a bit later.

Originally Posted by JustAnotherPrimaryTeacher

Not just about the portfolio to justify performance at the newly promoted subgrade. It's also about the quantum to give out Bs and above. Will need to write a report to cluster supt if the school really intends to give out B to a newly promoted officer. And usually the justification cannot purely be "The officer exceeds KRAs in his newly promoted subgrade". Because that would mean that the MOE subgrade system validity is questioned (i.e. someone can directly be working at the next subgrade level to such a high level that the growth model and progression is not valid). So the above scenario must be coupled with a few other situations in the school. Either your school strength is low (e.g. about to merge), or that most of the staff in your school are not good enough, as such, there are still enough B's to go around, then this once in a blue moon situation will happen. But it's so rare for such situations to happen.

I know because for my school, after ranking 1st round, we had contemplated to submit a report before for one of the staff who just got promoted. But in the end replaced it with another staff and the newly promoted one still got C+

I will congratulate you for that B, too rare. But nevertheless, I don't want people to see it as a potential possibility because it will not happen for 99.99% of the people here.

Thanks for sharing. Blessed to be in my school. Many here get above C+ after promotion.

18 yrs, female,NIE grad, SEO1 (HOD), 9.8k
15 yrs, male, PGDE, SEO1 (HOD), 9.4k
16 yrs, female, Dip Ed, emplacement to degree during 8th year, GEO 4, 6k
13 yrs, female, mid-career, GEO5A, 8.5k (increment 5 to 5A was only $200)
12 yrs, male, PGDE, GEO5, 7.4k
11 yrs, male, NIE grad, GEO5 (SH), 7.6k
9 yrs, female, HOD, NUS grad, GEO5, about 7k plus (she said it's below 8k)
8 yrs, male, GEO5, SH, 7.5K
8 yrs, male, NIE grad, GEO 4, 6.1k
8 yrs, male, PGDE local FCH, GEO 3, 6.2k
8 yrs, male, GEO3, 5.9k
6 yrs, male, PGDE Overseas degree, GEO5 6.6k
6 yrs, male, PGDE local degree (HQ officer), GEO5 6.7k
6 yrs, male, PGDE local degree (HQ officer), GEO4 6.3k
6 yrs, female, NIE grad, GEO4 (SH new), 6k
6 yrs, male, NIE grad, GEO4, 6.2k
5 yrs, female, NIE grad, GEO3, 5.1k
5 yrs, female, PGDE, GEO3, 5.1k
4 yrs, female, NIE grad, GEO3, 5.4k
4 yrs, female, mid-career, GEO3, 6.1k
4 yrs, male, NIE grad, GEO4, 5.6k
4 yrs, male, NIE grad, GEO4, 5.3k
3 yrs, male, PGDE, GEO3, 5.4k
3 yrs, male, PGDE, GEO3, 5.7k
1 yr, female, mid-career, GEO3, 5.9k

Originally Posted by Unregistered

we can only hope that ranking panels, esp SLs in all schools are humane enough not to let personal feelings get in the way of fair ranking for officers applying for OPE

that said, human emotions and personality are hard to predict

"got manpower shortage in this subject area liao still want to leave"

"school culture and treatment better than other schools liao still want to leave"

"students and colleagues appreciate you so much, still want to leave"

"since you already thinking of leaving, give you such a good grade for what? might as well give to other loyal people"

"B" grades can be downgraded to "C+" or "C" grades and so on becoz of such thinking. all that crazy workload for nothing in the end

worst case scenario is when the officer fails in the OPE application and still have to come back and face the same ranking panel with those thoughts again next year. super risky

I'll use anonymous to reply this since it's quite sensitive.

as long as there are humans involve, things will get political, emotional, and personal, no matter how objective you want it to be. You can say it's unfair, but at the end of the day, there will be hard evidence to justify the 'poorer grade' or 'change in grade'. Your examples listed above, are all the implicit reasons, but the official explicit ones, won't be all those, because they are all subjective and personal.

Being in the ranking panel, I have seen how the justifications include

"During walkabout, saw that the classroom management was not the best, or that students disengaged etc etc."

"Other staff working together in the project team feedbacked that this person is not a good team player"

But many of these justifications, happen to all teachers on bad days, just that the panel close one eye on them. So they can then open this can of worms, for each teacher, should they wish to 'change the grade'.

You can say it's unfair, but no one is perfect, so as long as you have bad days/moments, those will be used against you, when there is a need to.

This is the unfortunate truth. I cannot say this for all schools. But quite a lot of schools are like this. As long as you are not perfect, there will be something, officially black and white, observable and "non-biased", to be used against you.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I'll use anonymous to reply this since it's quite sensitive.

as long as there are humans involve, things will get political, emotional, and personal, no matter how objective you want it to be. You can say it's unfair, but at the end of the day, there will be hard evidence to justify the 'poorer grade' or 'change in grade'. Your examples listed above, are all the implicit reasons, but the official explicit ones, won't be all those, because they are all subjective and personal.

Being in the ranking panel, I have seen how the justifications include

"During walkabout, saw that the classroom management was not the best, or that students disengaged etc etc."

"Other staff working together in the project team feedbacked that this person is not a good team player"

But many of these justifications, happen to all teachers on bad days, just that the panel close one eye on them. So they can then open this can of worms, for each teacher, should they wish to 'change the grade'.

You can say it's unfair, but no one is perfect, so as long as you have bad days/moments, those will be used against you, when there is a need to.

This is the unfortunate truth. I cannot say this for all schools. But quite a lot of schools are like this. As long as you are not perfect, there will be something, officially black and white, observable and "non-biased", to be used against you.

TLDR:
Nobody is perfect, even your regular A and B graders.
Everyone has their strengths and their weaknesses. ROs, KPs and SLs know them.

If they want to push someone to an A or a B, they will emphasise their strengths and also portray their weaknesses as things that are showing visible and steady improvement.

If they want to push someone down, they will downplay their strengths and put heavy emphasis on the negative impacts of their weaknesses.

Originally Posted by JustAnotherPrimaryTeacher

Agree on the possible troll for

3 yrs, male, PGDE, GEO4, 6.1k

Info will be removed again until OP comes and provides more details on his progression.


Latest
18 yrs, female,NIE grad, SEO1 (HOD), 9.8k
15 yrs, male, PGDE, SEO1 (HOD), 9.4k
13 yrs, female, mid-career, GEO5A, 8.5k (increment 5 to 5A was only $200)
12 yrs, male, PGDE, GEO5, 7.4k
11 yrs, male, NIE grad, GEO5 (SH), 7.6k
9 yrs, female, HOD,*NUS*grad, GEO5, about 7k plus (she said it's below 8k)
8 yrs, male, GEO5, SH, 7.5K
8 yrs, male, PGDE local FCH, GEO 3, 6.2k
8 yrs, male, GEO3, 5.9k
6 yrs, male, PGDE Overseas degree, GEO5 6.6k
6 yrs, male, PGDE local degree (HQ officer), GEO5 6.7k
6 yrs, male, PGDE local degree (HQ officer), GEO4 6.3k
6 yrs, female, NIE grad, GEO4 (SH new), 6k
6 yrs, male, NIE grad, GEO4, 6.2k
5 yrs, female, NIE grad, GEO3, 5.1k
4 yrs, female, mid-career, GEO3, 6.1k
4 yrs, male, NIE grad, GEO4, 5.3k
3 yrs, male PGDE, GEO3, 5.4k
3 yrs, male PGDE, GEO3, 5.7k

Secondary school teacher in a neighbourhood school. Male.
Joined service in 2020. PGDE. Promoted GEO3 in 2021 and GEO4 in 2023. A and B grades. Non-scholar holding internal SH position.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

TLDR:
Nobody is perfect, even your regular A and B graders.
Everyone has their strengths and their weaknesses. ROs, KPs and SLs know them.

If they want to push someone to an A or a B, they will emphasise their strengths and also portray their weaknesses as things that are showing visible and steady improvement.

If they want to push someone down, they will downplay their strengths and put heavy emphasis on the negative impacts of their weaknesses.

People relations are so important (unfortunately). Important to have multiple people on the ranking panel advocating for you other than your RO.

18 yrs, female,NIE grad, SEO1 (HOD), 9.8k
15 yrs, male, PGDE, SEO1 (HOD), 9.4k
16 yrs, female, Dip Ed, emplacement to degree during 8th year, GEO 4, 6k
13 yrs, female, mid-career, GEO5A, 8.5k (increment 5 to 5A was only $200)
12 yrs, male, PGDE, GEO5, 7.4k
11 yrs, male, NIE grad, GEO5 (SH), 7.6k
9 yrs, female, HOD, NUS grad, GEO5, about 7k plus (she said it's below 8k)
8 yrs, male, GEO5, SH, 7.5K
8 yrs, male, NIE grad, GEO 4, 6.1k
8 yrs, male, PGDE local FCH, GEO 3, 6.2k
8 yrs, male, GEO3, 5.9k
6 yrs, male, PGDE Overseas degree, GEO5 6.6k
6 yrs, male, PGDE local degree (HQ officer), GEO5 6.7k
6 yrs, male, PGDE local degree (HQ officer), GEO4 6.3k
6 yrs, female, NIE grad, GEO4 (SH new), 6k
6 yrs, male, NIE grad, GEO4, 6.2k
5 yrs, female, NIE grad, GEO3, 5.1k
5 yrs, female, PGDE, GEO3, 5.1k
5 yrs, male, PDGE, GEO4, 5.9k
4 yrs, female, NIE grad, GEO3, 5.4k
4 yrs, female, mid-career, GEO3, 6.1k
4 yrs, male, NIE grad, GEO4, 5.6k
4 yrs, male, NIE grad, GEO4, 5.3k
3 yrs, male, PGDE, GEO3, 5.4k
3 yrs, male, PGDE, GEO3, 5.7k
1 yr, female, mid-career, GEO3, 5.9k

Added in a new statistic (male yr 5 geo4) . Was actually promoted last year to geo4 after 2 years in GEO3 and 1 year in geo2 so I can confirm that this promotion pace exists (i am fortunate enough to be recognized).

But got promoted wrong time, like what others have mentioned. Promoted during covid with lower MI AND PI, and missed out on the higher GEO3 salary revision. Wonder if anyone has consulted WITH HR for advice on this matter since it's quite silly that we are promoted for better performance but our peers are earning more than us now course of the poor timing.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Added in a new statistic (male yr 5 geo4) . Was actually promoted last year to geo4 after 2 years in GEO3 and 1 year in geo2 so I can confirm that this promotion pace exists (i am fortunate enough to be recognized).

But got promoted wrong time, like what others have mentioned. Promoted during covid with lower MI AND PI, and missed out on the higher GEO3 salary revision. Wonder if anyone has consulted WITH HR for advice on this matter since it's quite silly that we are promoted for better performance but our peers are earning more than us now course of the poor timing.

There will be no recourse for this unfortunately. The standard response is that if you are a consistent good performer then you will be able to catch up. Not in those exact words la, but in essence it is like that.