Career as Teacher

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Yup, nowadays if you send an enquiry to HR, you will be told that: CEP no longer charts out your promotion rate in a deterministic way, unlike in the past.

In the past, it was very predictable. If your CEP was at a certain level, your promotions would come at a very predictable set of intervals as long as you didn't screw up and get adverse grades. If you performed consistently well, it may speed up, also at a predictable rate.

Nowadays, it appears that there are so many more factors involved that are no longer made known to any EOs, including your principals. One thing that is certain though, is that the rate has slowed down, not just for farmers but also for Ministry scholars. (PSC = different league)

When everyone is a scholar, everyone is not a scholar.

Unless someone is teaching some obscure subjects which few scholars want to major in, recent intakes for mainstream subjects are almost 100% scholars. A lot of A level applicants are channeled to the NIE TSP if they are under local scholarship. Vast majority of PGDE folks are the teaching award people who got the scholarship halfway through uni. So far in my sch, other than the odd farmer teaching in-demand subjects like EL, CL, Art and Music, all the trainees who come in so far are scholars. When the whole intake comprises of scholars, the system can't possibly promote all of them because there simply isn't so many openings for management positions.

When I joined the service donkey years ago, management positions were like 10-15% of total school staff headcount. 1 P, 1 or 2 VPs, and just the HODs of the various subjects and a DM. Today, the middle management has swelled up significantly with more HOD posts created, and not to mention the various STs, SHs, AYHs, LHs under them. Sometimes in a subject team, there are more KPs than normal teachers. The structure is too top heavy, and with many of these middle management in their late 30s-40s, they are only halfway through their career, with nowhere else for them to promote to. The congestion will only become more and more severe for junior officers.

Unless a person is creme-de-la-creme, really don't recommend anyone to join teaching nowadays.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

When everyone is a scholar, everyone is not a scholar.

Unless someone is teaching some obscure subjects which few scholars want to major in, recent intakes for mainstream subjects are almost 100% scholars. A lot of A level applicants are channeled to the NIE TSP if they are under local scholarship. Vast majority of PGDE folks are the teaching award people who got the scholarship halfway through uni. So far in my sch, other than the odd farmer teaching in-demand subjects like EL, CL, Art and Music, all the trainees who come in so far are scholars. When the whole intake comprises of scholars, the system can't possibly promote all of them because there simply isn't so many openings for management positions.

When I joined the service donkey years ago, management positions were like 10-15% of total school staff headcount. 1 P, 1 or 2 VPs, and just the HODs of the various subjects and a DM. Today, the middle management has swelled up significantly with more HOD posts created, and not to mention the various STs, SHs, AYHs, LHs under them. Sometimes in a subject team, there are more KPs than normal teachers. The structure is too top heavy, and with many of these middle management in their late 30s-40s, they are only halfway through their career, with nowhere else for them to promote to. The congestion will only become more and more severe for junior officers.

Unless a person is creme-de-la-creme, really don't recommend anyone to join teaching nowadays.

High potential young EOs should not squander their youth waiting for advancement opportunities in schools, rather, they should spend some years in Policy Wing divisions, and then ride on that experience to explore possibilities of cross-Ministry work (whether as a secondment or a full cross-deployment and change of scheme of service).

Some brain drain is inevitable in MOE to ease the incredible progression bottleneck; whether it occurs in the middle-of-career stage, or in the body of young go-getters.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

High potential young EOs should not squander their youth waiting for advancement opportunities in schools, rather, they should spend some years in Policy Wing divisions, and then ride on that experience to explore possibilities of cross-Ministry work (whether as a secondment or a full cross-deployment and change of scheme of service).

Some brain drain is inevitable in MOE to ease the incredible progression bottleneck; whether it occurs in the middle-of-career stage, or in the body of young go-getters.

Chicken and egg issue. It seems like nowadays to even get to apply for HQ postings, need to be GEO4, at least for the more prestigious postings. Until they get their GEO4, they are stuck in schools. But it's hard to stand out when everyone in your paygrade are scholars too, and there's only so many As and Bs that can be awarded.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Chicken and egg issue. It seems like nowadays to even get to apply for HQ postings, need to be GEO4, at least for the more prestigious postings. Until they get their GEO4, they are stuck in schools. But it's hard to stand out when everyone in your paygrade are scholars too, and there's only so many As and Bs that can be awarded.

GEO3 is sufficient to hold normal officer positions in HQ. GEO4 is only required to be appointed to some formal leadership positions (e.g. AD). It could be tougher to enter Policy Wing divisions as a very young EO, but Prof Wing divisions (CPDD, ETD) have their fair share of GEO3 officers.

Most of the time you do need a CEP equivalent to SEO1 or higher to enter HQ, though.

Hi I would like to ask, for a confirmed KP how long usually will it take for one to get promoted from GEO5 to SEO1? I got my KP ship and GEO5 in 2020. Realised that one of my SH who just got confirmed this year, managed to get his SEO1 within 2 years (ie GEO5 in 2021 and SEO1 in 2023). He got his KP ship later than me and yet his salary grade is higher than me.

Means one of you is CMi

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Hi I would like to ask, for a confirmed KP how long usually will it take for one to get promoted from GEO5 to SEO1? I got my KP ship and GEO5 in 2020. Realised that one of my SH who just got confirmed this year, managed to get his SEO1 within 2 years (ie GEO5 in 2021 and SEO1 in 2023). He got his KP ship later than me and yet his salary grade is higher than me.

Anyone promoted to GEO 5A or know of someone who has been promoted to GEO 5A?

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Hi I would like to ask, for a confirmed KP how long usually will it take for one to get promoted from GEO5 to SEO1? I got my KP ship and GEO5 in 2020. Realised that one of my SH who just got confirmed this year, managed to get his SEO1 within 2 years (ie GEO5 in 2021 and SEO1 in 2023). He got his KP ship later than me and yet his salary grade is higher than me.

No fixed rules.

Since you are geo5, by now you should know that pace differs between people.

Some very high CEP will promote every 1-2 years.

Some have been KPs for many years, still stuck in geo4 and geo5.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Anyone promoted to GEO 5A or know of someone who has been promoted to GEO 5A?

Yes, only one in my school got promoted to GEO 5A. This is his 12th year teaching, mid-career. Early 50s.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Yes, only one in my school got promoted to GEO 5A. This is his 12th year teaching, mid-career. Early 50s.

Are you in a JC or sec Sch?