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Mnc jobs - a must in life ??

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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 08-02-2012, 01:26 PM
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What abt companies like sony, samsung ?? Are they considered well-reputed brand MNCs. Will working there help in the long run.
Sony gives overtime pay for its engineers

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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 09-02-2012, 09:26 PM
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Sony gives overtime pay for its engineers
yeah, the overtime pay will be useful when you are retrenched.

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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 10-02-2012, 01:44 PM
Workerbee
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Default Work in SME

Work in a SME if you want to become an entrepreneur ultimately. Select a good boss who has grown from startup to at least >1M in profit annually. Then you will learn something from him or her. Yes, cost consciousness matters a lot and that is why there is much bootstrapping on budgets and multi-tasking before hiring more. But if you intend to be an entrepreneur, then this is the best learning ground as much of what u do and learn will be transferable in your own venture. MNCs i would argue, tend to spoil us.

But if u just want to make a good living, get paid decently, then i think MNC probably better. More structure, generally better pay, more perks etc.

But as a SME owner, i can tell you that being a successful entrepreneur is as good if not better than being a MNC manager/snr mgr in terms of freedom and money. In fact, i would argue the feeling of being able pay for your own business class tickets and have people respect you for what you created from scratch is totally comparable to the respect you get from being part of a branded MNC. Job security is so much better too!

Moreover, if you can transfer to professional management like many of the more famous SME families or if you sell to a MNC, then you are a capital owner who does not even need work. In MNC environment, only regional CEO or global CXOs reach that level as you need to accumulate about $15-20M min over 10 years of work.

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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 10-02-2012, 02:12 PM
fixated
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You make a couple of points that on the surface sounds sensible, but if you dig deeper reveal a lot of flawed thinking many people have on SMEs.

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Originally Posted by Workerbee View Post
Select a good boss who has grown from startup to at least >1M in profit annually. Then you will learn something from him or her. ... if you intend to be an entrepreneur, then this is the best learning ground as much of what u do and learn will be transferable in your own venture. MNCs i would argue, tend to spoil us.
Telling people to select "good" boss is like advising the way to strike rich is to select "good" stocks and buy "winning" numbers. There is no way you can tell if the boss is good just by interview and reference checks. Each boss has unique work style that is only suitable for some, a good boss of one may be a terrible one for the other.

Besides most people do not have the luxury of moving around SMEs at rapid pace to select out the good boss. You will end up damaging your CV badly if you try this stunt too many times. Profitability of the firm seldom has little relation to how much you can learn from the boss as well.

Quote:
But as a SME owner, i can tell you that being a successful entrepreneur is as good if not better than being a MNC manager/snr mgr in terms of freedom and money. In fact, i would argue the feeling of being able pay for your own business class tickets and have people respect you for what you created from scratch is totally comparable to the respect you get from being part of a branded MNC. Job security is so much better too!
What exactly does freedom mean? There are Senior Managers in MNCs who work like cows and also loboh ones that know how to achieve work life balance. Similarly there are businesses and industries where the boss can focus on management of strategic issues while other businesses might require 24/7 hands on management on the ground or be available anytime for the client.

I would suggest that you not make generalised statements on MNCs and SMEs based on your very limited experience in the particular business environment you are familiar with. As for satisfaction of paying your own business class ticket, that is probably something personal to you. I doubt the typical SME boss flies around in business class.

Everyone be it business owner or employee is suceptible to business ups and downs. Employees have an added risk of internal politics while business owner has an added risk of capital impairment. The idea that owning a SME provides better security than being MNC employee is downright laughable in itself.

Quote:
Moreover, if you can transfer to professional management like many of the more famous SME families or if you sell to a MNC, then you are a capital owner who does not even need work. In MNC environment, only regional CEO or global CXOs reach that level as you need to accumulate about $15-20M min over 10 years of work.
And somehow you will be able to build up a business from scratch to a valuation of $15-20mln with less work than a c-level executive? I strongly doubt so, evidence suggests the proportion of SMEs that are eventually able to reach such valuations are few and far between. Even if they do, their owners sure did not have cruise their woay through compared to senior managers in MNCs in which you seem to be implying throughout your post.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 10-02-2012, 03:43 PM
workerbee
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Default Workerbee replies!

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Originally Posted by fixated View Post
You make a couple of points that on the surface sounds sensible, but if you dig deeper reveal a lot of flawed thinking many people have on SMEs.

Telling people to select "good" boss is like advising the way to strike rich is to select "good" stocks and buy "winning" numbers. There is no way you can tell if the boss is good just by interview and reference checks. Each boss has unique work style that is only suitable for some, a good boss of one may be a terrible one for the other.

Besides most people do not have the luxury of moving around SMEs at rapid pace to select out the good boss. You will end up damaging your CV badly if you try this stunt too many times. Profitability of the firm seldom has little relation to how much you can learn from the boss as well.
Agree with you totally on the various factors which determine a good boss. I was making the point that if one wants to run own business, working in a SME which has some success and which has a good (read willing to share knowledge) boss helps in terms of learning what it takes and in terms of having the right bootstrap "do everything also can" mentality.

My point on profitability is so that one can work under bosses who obviously have created something of value and hence there is something positive to learn working in their company.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fixated View Post

What exactly does freedom mean? There are Senior Managers in MNCs who work like cows and also loboh ones that know how to achieve work life balance. Similarly there are businesses and industries where the boss can focus on management of strategic issues while other businesses might require 24/7 hands on management on the ground or be available anytime for the client.
I have run my own multimillion dollar business for last few years after starting up in the late 90s. What i mean by freedom is that i do not need to seek permission to do anything. This does not mean that i ignore others or that i am nasty to employees and clients and vendors. On contrary, they are even more important to me since a lot is tied up with business. But i feel so free each day because what i am doing is exactly what i want to do. And i have the option to always hire people to do any activity that i do not want to do long term if my interests change. And now with mgmt in place, I can also work the hours i want so long as things are not too haywire. Not many MNC snr mgtm can do this.

On the flip side, you are right about the risk of ownership and concentration of net worth in the business. And that is why I advocate selling to a MNC or listing to partially get an exit. But that is another story.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fixated View Post
I would suggest that you not make generalised statements on MNCs and SMEs based on your very limited experience in the particular business environment you are familiar with. As for satisfaction of paying your own business class ticket, that is probably something personal to you. I doubt the typical SME boss flies around in business class.

Everyone be it business owner or employee is suceptible to business ups and downs. Employees have an added risk of internal politics while business owner has an added risk of capital impairment. The idea that owning a SME provides better security than being MNC employee is downright laughable in itself.
I have to disagree here. I know many business owners ( and i am talking about those who earn more than 1M profit a year ), and if you talk with us, we are far more secure in our knowledge that we have created from nothing, something that actually generates value. In SG, employers are rather favored over employees in terms of govt support, tax structure etc. Capital owners win here and SME bosses are capital owners. Not sure why you find it laughable.... I do however agree that if a business has not reached 1M profit consistently, then yes.. the SME owner is probably rather insecure still and may feel chained.

As for business class flying, erm.. actually most SME bosses who make $1M profit fly business class. it makes more sense and we can usually charge company expense to our credit cards and so get loads of frequent flyer miles. Side topic.... I was just making a point that it is better to earn the actual networth that allows one to spend like this than to have it as a perk of the job but actually cannot afford the tickets. For example, many mgr in MNC fly business but for their own trips, fly economy. Nothing wrong, but to me one must got get too used to the perks or one will end up a slave to the MNC perks and job.


Quote:
Originally Posted by fixated View Post
And somehow you will be able to build up a business from scratch to a valuation of $15-20mln with less work than a c-level executive? I strongly doubt so, evidence suggests the proportion of SMEs that are eventually able to reach such valuations are few and far between. Even if they do, their owners sure did not have cruise their woay through compared to senior managers in MNCs in which you seem to be implying throughout your post.
I never said everyone will make it. You are right - very few will. I was just making the point that in terms of career path, if you want to be an entrepreneur, then MNC exp is not a MUST and learning from good SME bosses is probably very important. I have heard of many successful SME bosses who learn from each other via EO or YPO etc but i have yet to hear of SME bosses who attribute their key mentor to be someone from GLC or MNC....

As for who works harder, I am sure SME bosses work as hard and it really varies. But i am pretty sure generally SME bosses enjoy the processes far more. I just need to compare my peers who are in snr mgmt in govt/GLCs or local snr mgmt in MNCs with other peers who are running successful businesses.... i think the freedom , sense of ownership and passion is quite a world apart.

Anyway, for readers here, i am not saying being a SME boss is easier and/or a better career path. It is definitely tough and require specific skills and personality type.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 10-02-2012, 04:32 PM
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So whats your point other than haolianing how satki and successful you are?

You already admit very hard to get rich by running business is so I assume for the normal 99% of us it is better to go for MNC job?

Quote:
Originally Posted by workerbee View Post
Agree with you totally on the various factors which determine a good boss. I was making the point that if one wants to run own business, working in a SME which has some success and which has a good (read willing to share knowledge) boss helps in terms of learning what it takes and in terms of having the right bootstrap "do everything also can" mentality.

My point on profitability is so that one can work under bosses who obviously have created something of value and hence there is something positive to learn working in their company.


I have run my own multimillion dollar business for last few years after starting up in the late 90s. What i mean by freedom is that i do not need to seek permission to do anything. This does not mean that i ignore others or that i am nasty to employees and clients and vendors. On contrary, they are even more important to me since a lot is tied up with business. But i feel so free each day because what i am doing is exactly what i want to do. And i have the option to always hire people to do any activity that i do not want to do long term if my interests change. And now with mgmt in place, I can also work the hours i want so long as things are not too haywire. Not many MNC snr mgtm can do this.

On the flip side, you are right about the risk of ownership and concentration of net worth in the business. And that is why I advocate selling to a MNC or listing to partially get an exit. But that is another story.



I have to disagree here. I know many business owners ( and i am talking about those who earn more than 1M profit a year ), and if you talk with us, we are far more secure in our knowledge that we have created from nothing, something that actually generates value. In SG, employers are rather favored over employees in terms of govt support, tax structure etc. Capital owners win here and SME bosses are capital owners. Not sure why you find it laughable.... I do however agree that if a business has not reached 1M profit consistently, then yes.. the SME owner is probably rather insecure still and may feel chained.

As for business class flying, erm.. actually most SME bosses who make $1M profit fly business class. it makes more sense and we can usually charge company expense to our credit cards and so get loads of frequent flyer miles. Side topic.... I was just making a point that it is better to earn the actual networth that allows one to spend like this than to have it as a perk of the job but actually cannot afford the tickets. For example, many mgr in MNC fly business but for their own trips, fly economy. Nothing wrong, but to me one must got get too used to the perks or one will end up a slave to the MNC perks and job.




I never said everyone will make it. You are right - very few will. I was just making the point that in terms of career path, if you want to be an entrepreneur, then MNC exp is not a MUST and learning from good SME bosses is probably very important. I have heard of many successful SME bosses who learn from each other via EO or YPO etc but i have yet to hear of SME bosses who attribute their key mentor to be someone from GLC or MNC....

As for who works harder, I am sure SME bosses work as hard and it really varies. But i am pretty sure generally SME bosses enjoy the processes far more. I just need to compare my peers who are in snr mgmt in govt/GLCs or local snr mgmt in MNCs with other peers who are running successful businesses.... i think the freedom , sense of ownership and passion is quite a world apart.

Anyway, for readers here, i am not saying being a SME boss is easier and/or a better career path. It is definitely tough and require specific skills and personality type.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 10-02-2012, 05:08 PM
workerbee
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Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
So whats your point other than haolianing how satki and successful you are?

You already admit very hard to get rich by running business is so I assume for the normal 99% of us it is better to go for MNC job?
Re-reading i do agree i got carried away and was boasting and apologize to all readers for it! But while it is very hard to get rich (meaning>20M) doing business, i think it is even harder achieving it working in an MNC. But that is not the point of this thread...

This thread's topic is that MNC jobs is a must for life. I am trying to share my own observation to tell readers that if you want to be an entrepreneur, then maybe work for a successful SME first as there are more skills, traits to be learned there. And it is definitely not a MUST to work in an MNC.

I never ever said working for an MNC is bad or no good. In fact, i think if one decides not to be an entrepreneur and one cannot be an AO in govt, then i think MNC is a great option! Why i think AO in govt is better is because then you can get top jobs in GLCs which pay as well as C suite in many MNCs. And also at least those are Sporean firms.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 10-02-2012, 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by workerbee View Post
Re-reading i do agree i got carried away and was boasting and apologize to all readers for it! But while it is very hard to get rich (meaning>20M) doing business, i think it is even harder achieving it working in an MNC. But that is not the point of this thread...

This thread's topic is that MNC jobs is a must for life. I am trying to share my own observation to tell readers that if you want to be an entrepreneur, then maybe work for a successful SME first as there are more skills, traits to be learned there. And it is definitely not a MUST to work in an MNC.

I never ever said working for an MNC is bad or no good. In fact, i think if one decides not to be an entrepreneur and one cannot be an AO in govt, then i think MNC is a great option! Why i think AO in govt is better is because then you can get top jobs in GLCs which pay as well as C suite in many MNCs. And also at least those are Sporean firms.
i'm a passerby. no i don't find that you were boasting.

in fact i would like to thank you for sharing your thoughts on why working SMEs could be advantageous.

your reasoning is not too different from someone else here who said that the most street-smart of the poly students can actually outperform the most book-smart of the JC students. i hazard to say that the outperformance in terms of financial reward can be up to tenfold or even more.
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 10-02-2012, 10:56 PM
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Originally Posted by passerby2 View Post
i'm a passerby. no i don't find that you were boasting.

in fact i would like to thank you for sharing your thoughts on why working SMEs could be advantageous.

your reasoning is not too different from someone else here who said that the most street-smart of the poly students can actually outperform the most book-smart of the JC students. i hazard to say that the outperformance in terms of financial reward can be up to tenfold or even more.
The problem with this sort of thinking is it tends to ignore hard empirical evidence and relies too much on glorifying the outlying values.

Every year that MOM has published workforce statistics is the same, degree holders as a whole earn much more than diploma holders. Take enough of a small sample size you will always be able to find some huat poly grad to compare with a downtrodden degree taxi driver.

Such stories should be seen in context and people should learn from them as shinning examples of never bowing to constraints, but they should never be used as inputs to decision making process as at the end of the day, you are unlikely going to be the outlier.

To bring back to this thread, people should still go to MNCs if possible for exposure and get a degree if possible. Such occasional success stories (if they are true in the first place) should not be factored into normal decision making.
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Old 11-02-2012, 12:02 AM
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The problem with this sort of thinking is it tends to ignore hard empirical evidence and relies too much on glorifying the outlying values.

Every year that MOM has published workforce statistics is the same, degree holders as a whole earn much more than diploma holders. Take enough of a small sample size you will always be able to find some huat poly grad to compare with a downtrodden degree taxi driver.

Such stories should be seen in context and people should learn from them as shinning examples of never bowing to constraints, but they should never be used as inputs to decision making process as at the end of the day, you are unlikely going to be the outlier.

To bring back to this thread, people should still go to MNCs if possible for exposure and get a degree if possible. Such occasional success stories (if they are true in the first place) should not be factored into normal decision making.
He's not talking about the average guys. He's talking about the most street smart from poly vs the most book smart from jc. These are by definition outliers.
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