How is life as a doctor in Singapore?

Originally Posted by Palebluedot

Passion alone can't feed family and other meaningful fulfilment such as provide a comfortable standard of living for aged parents. In fact, low pay is acceptable if it is commensurate with the cost of training for the job and output of the actual work. How can HO's pay remain relatively the same for 17 years? Is the medical fraternity think current landscape is optimal in term of pay, job progression vs workload and responsibility? 10 yrs is short but it does not guarantee success thereafter too if one get stuck as a MO and can't find GP job, for whatever reason. Unless you can vow that this won't happen?

Nursing pay is also low. In healthcare there are no cosy jobs.
Even swabbers take physical risk.

Supply and demand folks.

Last I checked there are A LOT of students in Sg who want to be doctors.

Yes the starting pay is low. The cost of the education is high. But still so many applicants.

Why? Sg culture and mindset. Doctor is good. Prestigious. Make good money.

Tatler Magazine helps to perpetuate that idea.

Many doctors actually come from rich families and don't have to worry about money.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I read all 114 pages. I am interested in 'How is life as a doctor in Singapore' because my daughter could be one 5 years down the road.

I am shocked to find out that the houseman/woman pay has not changed much, if at all, from 10 years back. 3.5k per month vs about 150-170k of education fee. A normal good degree can fetch you 4-5k if you join SAF or SPF or even becoming a teacher. 3.5k is poly diploma kind of pay.

I read through and got a second shock when one of you posted and mentioned that in 2003 [or 04], when he was a 3rd or 4th year MO, his pay was 4.5k. Same thing, no increment or at best, slight increment after 17 years.

Third shock, one can remain as MO and earn max pay of 8K if didn't manage to specialise or becoming a GP. You are definitely earning lower than an SAF or SPF officer or teacher here, yet your degree cost much much more.

On the other spectrum, you can become a specialist, the fastest, in about 10 years. You would then be an associate consultant but it seems that in fact, there may be no vacancy and you have to wait for existing AC to move up, move out or retired to take over the vacant spot? Same thing here from AC to consultant?

There is no guarantee that you can become a specialist. All MOs will fight for the training opportunities, if accepted, have to study, train and take exams before qualify to be a specialist? You may or may not get sponsored for the exam fee, which is costly? This is a very small number? I don't know how many in term of % of cohort can end up as a specialist/AC/C.

Is my summary the accurate reflection of the medicine landscape? My conclusion from the reading is that it does not worth the investment to become a MO forever. To lesser extend, it is not too bad to become a GP if one can't be a specialist and progress to AC/C. Even then, the competition is getting intense in the GP scene? If GP can't command at least 15-17k per month, and if in the long run, if GPs income drop to 10k level, then it is also not worth the long education and cost involved to become a doctor.

I remember very clearly in 2003 during SARS that my salary was around $4700 a month as a 4th Year MO.

During that time my wife's best friend talked to her about buying condo in orchard road area. Investment. Her husband worked as a FOREX trader with HSBC.

My wife asked me and I looked at our bank account and only had 25k to our name.

Around 4 years later wife's bestie said they bought a total of 6 condos. And 2 had gone en bloc. Set for life. And he was making 13 months of bonus each year and earning close to $500k a year. Meaning total pay package more than a million a year. Myself? Became a GP. Was "happy" to make $10k a month no bonus.

How did they manage to buy? Banks gave generous loans with great rates to staff. Encouraged staff to buy. With low downpayment as well.

Tell your daughter to forget medicine. Go into banking.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I read all 114 pages. I am interested in 'How is life as a doctor in Singapore' because my daughter could be one 5 years down the road.

I am shocked to find out that the houseman/woman pay has not changed much, if at all, from 10 years back. 3.5k per month vs about 150-170k of education fee. A normal good degree can fetch you 4-5k if you join SAF or SPF or even becoming a teacher. 3.5k is poly diploma kind of pay.

I read through and got a second shock when one of you posted and mentioned that in 2003 [or 04], when he was a 3rd or 4th year MO, his pay was 4.5k. Same thing, no increment or at best, slight increment after 17 years.

Third shock, one can remain as MO and earn max pay of 8K if didn't manage to specialise or becoming a GP. You are definitely earning lower than an SAF or SPF officer or teacher here, yet your degree cost much much more.

On the other spectrum, you can become a specialist, the fastest, in about 10 years. You would then be an associate consultant but it seems that in fact, there may be no vacancy and you have to wait for existing AC to move up, move out or retired to take over the vacant spot? Same thing here from AC to consultant?

There is no guarantee that you can become a specialist. All MOs will fight for the training opportunities, if accepted, have to study, train and take exams before qualify to be a specialist? You may or may not get sponsored for the exam fee, which is costly? This is a very small number? I don't know how many in term of % of cohort can end up as a specialist/AC/C.

Is my summary the accurate reflection of the medicine landscape? My conclusion from the reading is that it does not worth the investment to become a MO forever. To lesser extend, it is not too bad to become a GP if one can't be a specialist and progress to AC/C. Even then, the competition is getting intense in the GP scene? If GP can't command at least 15-17k per month, and if in the long run, if GPs income drop to 10k level, then it is also not worth the long education and cost involved to become a doctor.

Tell your daughter to go into banking.

The goal is to earn as much money in the shortest space of time and retire early. That will NEVER happen with medicine.

Banker patients told me that the banks know where the economy is going. During good times they will extend loans to staff. Buy buy buy. Then when it is time to sell they will sell all their assets before the drop off in economy. Then buy again during the lows.

Banks control the money. Forget medicine if you care about money.

There is also no appreciation from people with medicine. SG people despise doctors.

[Palebluedot]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I remember very clearly in 2003 during SARS that my salary was around $4700 a month as a 4th Year MO.

During that time my wife's best friend talked to her about buying condo in orchard road area. Investment. Her husband worked as a FOREX trader with HSBC.

My wife asked me and I looked at our bank account and only had 25k to our name.

Around 4 years later wife's bestie said they bought a total of 6 condos. And 2 had gone en bloc. Set for life. And he was making 13 months of bonus each year and earning close to $500k a year. Meaning total pay package more than a million a year. Myself? Became a GP. Was "happy" to make $10k a month no bonus.

How did they manage to buy? Banks gave generous loans with great rates to staff. Encouraged staff to buy. With low downpayment as well.

Tell your daughter to forget medicine. Go into banking.

Thank you for sharing and confirming your experience. I am not aiming for my daughter or anyone aspire to become a doctor to earn that kind of money a successful banker earn. After all, the goal, motivation and purpose of each vocation is very different. I just can't stomach that with inflation, higher standard of living and what's not, a houseman's and a MO's pay can remain almost unchanged for close to 20 years.

The second point is that since it is so hard to train a MO, almost a million, why the corresponding pay is, at least in my view, rather low. It is not as if the actual doctor job is relaxing with short hours. I can even accept that a junior doctor is expected to slough it out, be toughen up in first few years of the career to learn the rope. However, it is very discouraging to learn that some doctor remain a MO and earn max pay of $10k after more than 10 years in the field.

Imagine contributing your whole life to work as a MO in hospitals and bringing home $10k at late 40s or even early 50s?

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Originally Posted by Palebluedot

Thank you for sharing and confirming your experience. I am not aiming for my daughter or anyone aspire to become a doctor to earn that kind of money a successful banker earn. After all, the goal, motivation and purpose of each vocation is very different. I just can't stomach that with inflation, higher standard of living and what's not, a houseman's and a MO's pay can remain almost unchanged for close to 20 years.

The second point is that since it is so hard to train a MO, almost a million, why the corresponding pay is, at least in my view, rather low. It is not as if the actual doctor job is relaxing with short hours. I can even accept that a junior doctor is expected to slough it out, be toughen up in first few years of the career to learn the rope. However, it is very discouraging to learn that some doctor remain a MO and earn max pay of $10k after more than 10 years in the field.

Imagine contributing your whole life to work as a MO in hospitals and bringing home $10k at late 40s or even early 50s?

But that is the reality in Singapore.

$10k is not enough for you?

Originally Posted by Palebluedot

Thank you for sharing and confirming your experience. I am not aiming for my daughter or anyone aspire to become a doctor to earn that kind of money a successful banker earn. After all, the goal, motivation and purpose of each vocation is very different. I just can't stomach that with inflation, higher standard of living and what's not, a houseman's and a MO's pay can remain almost unchanged for close to 20 years.

The second point is that since it is so hard to train a MO, almost a million, why the corresponding pay is, at least in my view, rather low. It is not as if the actual doctor job is relaxing with short hours. I can even accept that a junior doctor is expected to slough it out, be toughen up in first few years of the career to learn the rope. However, it is very discouraging to learn that some doctor remain a MO and earn max pay of $10k after more than 10 years in the field.

Imagine contributing your whole life to work as a MO in hospitals and bringing home $10k at late 40s or even early 50s?

You see this is the problem. On one hand the doctors want to put up an image where they say they are not in it for the money.
But then they will complain $10k a month is too low?

So how much is enough?

Seriously if you are worried $10k is not enough then you should look elsewhere for a career. Law. Finance. Insurance. Sales. Trading. Political.

All the professions that have the term "vocation" attached to it, should be paid minimal. Historically the religious orders performed these vocations for free based on donations.

Teaching.
Healing.
Clergy.

The people taking an issue with the $$ are conveniently leaving out the job security and prestige that comes with the profession. It would be valid if the job is barely paying a living wage or national median. If it helps, compare this with others working in their fields of “passion” which are usually much less lucrative (Arts, musics and such). And how about comparing to other jobs of equally noble calling? Say Teachers/ policeman?

Sour grapes maybe, but I feel they want it all and are being hypocritical about it.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

The people taking an issue with the $$ are conveniently leaving out the job security and prestige that comes with the profession. It would be valid if the job is barely paying a living wage or national median. If it helps, compare this with others working in their fields of “passion” which are usually much less lucrative (Arts, musics and such). And how about comparing to other jobs of equally noble calling? Say Teachers/ policeman?

Sour grapes maybe, but I feel they want it all and are being hypocritical about it.

Agree.

I often see doctors saying things like my biggest reward is having my patients thank me. Or give me packet of nasi lemak.

Which indicates that these good doctors would work for free. I think they should make doctors work on volunteer basis. they can take donations. If you are not up to it don't be a doctor.