Career crossroad/s - Psych Major

Originally Posted by ambivalent

Thanks for the detailed insight.

Which is why I'd like to reiterate my question - which option seems best now?

1. Switch to another industry with the general psych degree I've (but which industries would introverted personalities thrive & receive learning opportunities from?

2. Pursue a part-time degree @ Murdoch (if yes, which course? from HR / Business / Marketing (reserved individual, weak in numbers/math related mods)

3. Attend short courses at SSI (Social service institute) - I've set sights on some courses (To value-add by acquiring new skills & for personal upgrading)

4. For student care managerial roles, what're the options I can take with a psych deg?

Hi Ambivalent,
I'm a fellow psych grad and I've found myself asking these same questions in the last few months as I just completed my honours course last year and still considered a fresh grad - particularly regarding considering the change of field. I've tried asking those around me (not that they could help because they aren't specialised in the field and can't really advise the prospects). And there aren't many answers on the internet and there aren't many people who can advise unless they are experienced in the field. So too bad for us who don't have those connections. I think that you are as confused as I was and that the best answer would actually come from within. I found myself considering between making a rational decision and a passionate one. Rational is of course to put food on the table for the rest of my life and of course the passionate one would be that I love this field and studying people because it is just so intriguing! =)

Another question that would arise would be then what do you want to gain from your work. As in what does work mean to you? Of course it is important to feed yourself but then it is not hard to find work just for sustenance. I remember a wise quote and love it - "If you love what you do, you'll never have to work a day in your life". So at the end of the day, what is most important to you when you're looking for a job? I found me asking myself if I would be kicking myself in the butt say 10 yrs from now if I can no longer take it working in another field that I don't particularly have great interest in, but have to stick with it for the sake of putting food on the table because by that time its just too late to do anything. Of course others might say that you can always do a mid-career change but then you start from rock bottom again and at a time where youth in not on your side and you have nothing to value add as compared to fresh grads. So it would be extremely hard to find someone who would give you that opportunity to start afresh. I mean, understandably so since it wouldn't be in the organisation's best interest either.

I don't know if you have ever done the myer-briggs test. You sound like you may be an INFJ too from the questions you are asking. I am an INFJ and I just tend to always see paths so far ahead (without intentionally wanting to). But after reading up on the internet I think that in this day and age, if you want stable progression and job stability then you pretty much got to stick to one field from the start because everyone is just looking for yrs and yrs of practical, specialised, experience (I mean, it wasn't too long ago that they started even having honours in HR, pretty surprising IMHO for something so generic) so you don't feel at any point like kicking yourself for having wasted precious time. Of course, the younger you are, the more you can afford to try jobs in other fields and if you don't like it then you can start again from the bottom but still be competitive (purely cos of your youth).

As much as a psych degree seems generic, I beg to differ. I find that its more generic in terms of the broad field of psych (cognitive, educational, sports, clinical, crimincal, etc.) but there are probably some concepts that laymen will not be able to wrap their heads around. It probably seems more generic to larger population because of its prevalence (I mean anything that involves humans, involves the human psyche that we try so hard to study). Particularly when it comes to research, I believe psych is really quite specialised.

With regards to psych being overrated in countries such as UK, Aust, USA - I beg to differ. The thing is that in these countries even the general populations are more enlightened regarding the job of a psychologist and the field of psychology (No, they do pop the "so you can read my mind" first question and they do not immediately think you are and can only be a clinical psychologist because they don't know how psych can be useful in other fields). Therefore, with this grounding, organisations naturally also appreciate pscyhologists more and hence more such positions are available. Unfortunately, in sg, I must say that the field of psych still needs to grow a lot, as a whole, from the ground up. Sadly, as you know our SPS is just made up of professionals who volunteer (grateful that they bother but they will obviously be very busy so I don't think that's good enough for the field to grow) and a little non-existent (so our field is a bit like a country without a government (or a part-time gov may be more apt in this case) IMHO). As an e.g. I sent a question regarding registering as a member 4 months back and till today, no word. So in all honesty, I'm not confident how much the field of psych in sg will grow in the next 10-20 yrs even though efforts are being made.

So back to whether you should continue with psych, I think its hard to advise because it really depends on what you want deep down because after all you'll be the one living with the consequence of your decision - good or bad. My opinion would be to carry on psych but its just an opinion and should have no bearing on what you want for yourself. If you can't get a psych job you can try contractual jobs that are seemingly related e.g. HR while continuing on your psych job search. I think there are some opportunities out that but really boils down to timing so if you are able to, then wait out for them.

I face the same issue with time and not finding a job soon enough but I believe that your first job is important and gaining experience in the right field as well. Although one may be desperate to reach out for any job that comes along, it needs to be balanced with whether its the best thing to do for yourself. Its easy to say just find any job (my parents ever told me that) and then figure it out along the way but sometimes its just much harder to change mid-way (and also easier to lose your way) than to set your path from the start and stick to it (yeah, sure, nothing is certain when it comes to the future but as much as possible, I'd like to control as many variables as I can).

Did you do honours? Do you like research/ ever considered it? Most psych positions in sg are research related where an honours (rarely but sometimes a degree) will suffice (which is why I decided to do honours>.<). The specialised positions generally require masters and registration with SPS. The only pscyhologist jobs that don't require masters are gov jobs. Overseas, to even use the term psychologist, must do masters. Australia allows you to do just PhD (no masters) so just 3 yrs for those who love research and want to be academics (profs) but don't want to practice. Research jobs don't pay that much but should decently pay closer to 3k starting I think (not 100% sure). If you've used SPSS its a value-add in terms of research but I note you don't like math so not sure if you like stats). research jobs try nie, nus ntu, go to their webpage to find. generally not on job portals. At your level, only can go for research assistant so you can use this search term.
If you like practice and don't mind work with children with diabilities, you can try thye hua kuan EIPIC. Starting pay is ok (prob hit 3k in 2 yrs) and opportunity for masters sponsorship. Position is called psychologist associates (I think other orgs also have this position). I was offered on the spot but after thinking about it, couldn't see myself doing this for the next 20 yrs so didn't take it up. Basically for THK work with young children - assess and them and plan interventions. Is under social work. SW field tends to have a little lower starting pays though but I guess quite stable.

Well HR is not too bad la. Interact with people for introverts like us is ok (as psychologist also will need to), things like presentations cannot run away. But if have to be outgoing and sell stuff and be thick-skinned then a bit hard. HR also has many areas and bigger companies sometimes split their department into smaller ones (e.g. talent and dev, org dev, selection & assessment, talent id, etc.). Other than recruitment related, most of these you don't really have to deal with people all that much (other than your own colleagues - meaning everyone in your organisation) so I doubt you will feel particularly uncomfortable. IMO it would be a better idea to test out the field before just jumping ship. You could perhaps try HR admin (if you don't have the required expertise) as a temp or short-contract job which will allow you to interact with the HR department and understand their job scope better so you may not gain experience doing the job but at least it gives you an idea of what it entails and if it is alright for you in the long term (same goes for any other areas you may be interested to try out). Sometimes there are also those that stated no exp required as trg will be provided kind. All about timing.

Of course if HR though, I personally prefer org psych because its more psych based. It overlaps a lot with HR but at diff stage (I used to be confused as to how IO psych values adds as compared to HR since like diff specialisation but the diff is that I/O psychs generally inform the HR as to the best practices for the org while HR just implements). I/O is really coming up very fast overseas so likely it will continue growing here too. If you are interested, check out SIOP, because even psychs get confused between I/O psychs and HRM since there is a lot of overlap. But if you don't mind HR it actually pays quite well now. even admin jobs also there are well paying ones after a couple of yrs exp. Just have to chance upon it. Sometimes just a matter of timing.

Otherwise try those 'any degree' kind of jobs. You can just search in gov first to give you an idea of what related search terms to use as the job title can vary a lot. Its hard to job search without knowing the terms to use >.< Sometimes same scope so many different names.

As for part-time degree, you have to be careful that it will be recognised by your future employer though. Reading through the forums I see quite a bit of people have bad experience. I also had once because I did part-time bachelors before doing a full time one-year honours but still it came back to haunt me (even with my first class honours, yupp reality hurts). But if you gonna do a second degree, might as well do a masters in another field. I'm sure there any quite many fields that accept a psych degree. Of course masters courses do prefer indivs who already have some work experience prior to the course as generally have job placements.

Another position that might be interesting is user experience kind of jobs although scope depends on the company itself. So basically you help to improve designs of apps, websites etc. based on studying people's interactions with them. Its a bit of cognitive pscyh plus consumer psych as it can help with product placements etc. On this technological age I think this field will definitely bloom eventually although not sure when in sg but its already starting as I've seen some openings in sg before so not impossible.

For student care, what kind of role are you doing now? Not very familiar with this area. But I guess for managerial role its more about being to manage people than about field although an understanding of the organisation's processes will help greatly.

As for 3. I guess you could do so. just research on the positions you are interested in and which are the more specialised skill sets needed and that you lack. Although you could probably do that part-time while working in SW field (maybe even sponsored by org). I'm sure they take those with gen psych degrees. Esp if you don't mind making home visits etc.

So sorry for the uber uber long post! Hopefully, some part of this post is of use, if any =P Just rambling off the top of my head so if some stuffs are a bit patchy, please be kind.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I don't know if you have ever done the myer-briggs test. You sound like you may be an INFJ too from the questions you are asking. I am an INFJ and I just tend to always see paths so far ahead (without intentionally wanting to). But after reading up on the internet I think that in this day and age, if you want stable progression and job stability then you pretty much got to stick to one field from the start because everyone is just looking for yrs and yrs of practical, specialised, experience (I mean, it wasn't too long ago that they started even having honours in HR, pretty surprising IMHO for something so generic) so you don't feel at any point like kicking yourself for having wasted precious time. Of course, the younger you are, the more you can afford to try jobs in other fields and if you don't like it then you can start again from the bottom but still be competitive (purely cos of your youth).

Hi there I'm not TS but I'm an INFJ too and it's so difficult finding job satisfaction. As you said, we keep seeing far into the future and thinking a lot, maybe too much. Most Singaporeans are S rather than N types and find us wishy washy and unrealistic. I also feel like people like us are not suited for the corporate kind of lifestyle.

Personally I was actually strongly considering changing field into psychology by doing a conversion masters degree because of personal interest, but I didn't go through with it because of practical reasons ie. had to go overseas and it costs a bomb + competitive industry like you mentioned. But I still don't see myself staying on in my current job/industry for the long term so I'm always very troubled about my long term future, especially since as you mentioned, mid-career switches mean starting from rock bottom.

About 'do what you love'...I always believed in that but nowadays I'm not so sure. I don't think it's necessary to put all your sense of self identity and self worth into one's career. You can probably work at a job you don't hate or that's just 'acceptable', but pays well enough and gives you enough time to have a proper life outside of work. That's what I'm looking out for now, as my current job isn't fulfilling enough but has long, irregular hours that eat up my life outside of work.

[ambivalent]

^ To the poster above me, hey. We really have many similarities. (Including personality).

As such, I'd like to get in touch with you personally (via email/whatsapp). Would love to hear from you if possible. drop me a pm, perhaps?

[ambivalent]

*To the one above who replied in 3/4 parts/sections, we've really plenty of similarities! Would appreciate if I can get in touch with you to know more about your personal experiences & etc. drop me a private message, perhaps?

In response to earlier messages, I've a second upper class (Hons). As for the institution I was from, I don't wish to disclose it due to privacy issues. I'm blessed to belong to an affluent family.

I'm engaged as a learning support educator within the education industry. I've done and personally conducted personality tests / psychological research reports. Forgot my results but it should either be INFJ/ISXX.

I'm aware the corporate world is a big no for me. Despite the fact that I know a handful from other industries.

All these long grandmother stories is a prime eg of why u guys are struggling. Too much postulating and not enough willingness to jump into the water, shake off past failure, learn from experience, face the future and constantly fine tune your approach.

Also all that psychological profiling and speculation of how unique and different u guys are (creative, long term etc.) resulting in difficulties mixing with the rest of SG workforce is complete BS. There is no clear evidence to show that any particular type of profile will cause difficulties finding job or working in a corp environment.

Since you all are having fun trying to act intellectual on psychology, you will know that INTJ is the rarest profile. And which profile has the highest number of CEO/CFO/EVP? Yep, INTJ. So cut that crap about you guys being psychologically minority that's why not suitable for working society in SG.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

All these long grandmother stories is a prime eg of why u guys are struggling. Too much postulating and not enough willingness to jump into the water, shake off past failure, learn from experience, face the future and constantly fine tune your approach.

Also all that psychological profiling and speculation of how unique and different u guys are (creative, long term etc.) resulting in difficulties mixing with the rest of SG workforce is complete BS. There is no clear evidence to show that any particular type of profile will cause difficulties finding job or working in a corp environment.

Since you all are having fun trying to act intellectual on psychology, you will know that INTJ is the rarest profile. And which profile has the highest number of CEO/CFO/EVP? Yep, INTJ. So cut that crap about you guys being psychologically minority that's why not suitable for working society in SG.

another prime example of the typical singaporean suck it up just do it unquestioning mentality, coupled with condescension toward anyone who is not in the 'typical' mould. this forum is full of such people who only have dollar signs and corporate ladder climbing on their minds.

Originally Posted by ambivalent

In response to earlier messages, I've a second upper class (Hons). As for the institution I was from, I don't wish to disclose it due to privacy issues. I'm blessed to belong to an affluent family.

i suspected you must be some rich man son. rest of us normal ppl have to make a living dun have time for teenage emo

Originally Posted by Unregistered

All these long grandmother stories is a prime eg of why u guys are struggling. Too much postulating and not enough willingness to jump into the water, shake off past failure, learn from experience, face the future and constantly fine tune your approach.

Also all that psychological profiling and speculation of how unique and different u guys are (creative, long term etc.) resulting in difficulties mixing with the rest of SG workforce is complete BS. There is no clear evidence to show that any particular type of profile will cause difficulties finding job or working in a corp environment.

Since you all are having fun trying to act intellectual on psychology, you will know that INTJ is the rarest profile. And which profile has the highest number of CEO/CFO/EVP? Yep, INTJ. So cut that crap about you guys being psychologically minority that's why not suitable for working society in SG.

shameless $$$ worshipper. another loser sinkie!

Originally Posted by Unregistered

i suspected you must be some rich man son. rest of us normal ppl have to make a living dun have time for teenage emo

i'm not rich but i admit i was raised in a middle class upbringing and didn't have to worry about basic necessities, so that might have coloured my outlook on life. regarding the teenage emo comment... what a mature reply from a sensible productive citizen of our great republic such as yourself. bravo.