SIM-UOL fresh grad starting pay

Originally Posted by Unregistered

No offense to most uol grads here.

But why are u guys so adamant in getting into the banking and finance industry? If you guys are thinking about getting into IBD, go take a look at linkedin at all the summer analysts from undergrad/ masters programs. Take a look at their credentials, then ask yourself what do you have in common with them. Other than which uni they came from, look at what else they have. Before someone tell me that they knew of a UOL grad who had made it into IBD, that is probably like 1% from the rest of the pool of "elites". And those 1% "lucky" UOL chaps either have some uber ninja networking skills or had CFA equivalent certs and etc. Things might be a little different but i hope you guys know what i'm trying to say here.

So if it's not IBD that you're aiming for, then what? middle office? risk mgt department? Or derivatives trading? compliance? back office ops? You have NTU,NUS,SMU,all the private Us and ppl who are thinking of making a career switch competing with you. I have a HR friend in 1 of the local big banks. She told me that they picked a NTU physics graduate with no experience over a FCH BNF UOL grad for a position in corporate finance team. U see, even fresh grads from other non-finance related faculty are competing with you guys.

Don't let the banking craze cloud your judgement. Open your eyes and look around. Read more news and talk to friends in other industries. I have UOL friends working in SGX, finance dept in some of the MNCs. I even know 1 chap who was doing admin/ops in a big agri trading house specialising in oil seeds, grain etc. Some networking here and there and slogged through countless of OTs, the firm finally bumped him up to be a full time trader.
But if you're still dead-fixed on heading into the BNF industry, then i wish you good luck. Persevere on, moderate your ambitions and be mindful of your surrounding and you will go far.

Not true with the extra credentials. It doesn't work as well as people think. Boils down to luck too.

I'm a UOL grad, passed my CFA level 1 during my student days, ranked in the top few percentile globally during my first attempt at Bloomberg Assessment test and I'm a Captain in a sports CCA in school, having won medals for school yearly. I've been sending out resume since yr 1 for internship, and have sent out in total 400+ resume since... Response rate... Abt 0.1%? And all are rejections. I asked many people to look through my resume and cover letter and the way i send my application for mistakes, everything seems fine. I even got one UOB HR lady to look through, she thought it was good, and even spend 30 minutes helping me edit my resume to find grammatical errors. but when I send my resume to them, not even an interview for internship in Ops. My friends still find it puzzling, I'm a super odd case.

I do read very widely, during my free time. I research extensively in the industry of my dreams.. hahaha.. I keep up to date with news and daily stats, spending extra money for WSJ, economist and FT sub (Which I read religiously, but ran out of cash for economist sub renewal). But most importantly if no one wants to give you even an interview, all that extra edge you build is nothing but personal interest and empty dreams.

2 Months back, I got selected by school for an interview before they help me send my resume out for an internship. They were very impressed by me during the interview and I was the best candidate they seen for the job yet. (That was the only relevant industry interview granted to me during my 3 years in UOL) They asked me to write up extra stuff so they can help me send in to the firm. I'm very touched that the school was willing to help, alas in the end, the firm did not give me an interview to prove myself. I'm very confident in interview, but if no one gives me the chance for an interview, then what? I've seen some of my friends with what you mention read subject guide only and score jobs I wanted and applied, and I'm not even given interview.

Sometimes i still feel down and regretted not studying to get into SMU BA, I'm only eligible to get into IS when i applied. The difference with employers' attitude between SMU and SIM UOL is extremely stark. I once sneaked into a certain firm's career talk in SMU.. It's like they are begging SMU students to join them and even got the CFO down. Meanwhile, my friend in SIM investment club told me some banks think SIM is a waste of their time for career talk when they called.

Anyway.. It's all about luck. I've just finished my final paper and looking for job FT. I'm expecting to graduate with minimum 2:1 and very very close to 1st... keeping my fingers crossed. Still no luck with my hunt. Anw, I hope all you guys job hunting all the best! For UOL students, yes, I've heard and seen good stuff happened to people from UOL. It's just luck sometimes.. Don't give up!

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I'm your senior from UOL. I have advice for you but do open up to the advice of others as well as I am only providing one of many perspectives.

Do some research on the market pay for that type of job right now and see if you have relevant degree. If you are going for Accounting, your degree is relevant. Starting pay for Accounting graduates will be median of around $2,700 for 3 years course. For SMU, it is $2,800 for 4 years course.

The general practice is that graduates from private schools tend to earn lesser than local graduates. Don't ask me why. That seems to be the practice. Nevertheless, I will advise that you ask lower than local university graduates for practical reasons. Firstly, the syllabus of local universities is localised. For example, UOL will not teach you that GST registered companies will not incur GST for most input materials but will for output goods (goods sold). Hence, for accounting of expenditures, most of them are without GST. Your local lecturers may teach you that but it is not in UOL syllabus. From this perspective, you may have already lose out from knowledge as compared to local uni graduates. Secondly, LSE may be behind our syllabus but legally speaking, we are only UOL graduates, not LSE graduates. From prestige perspective, NUS and NTU will definitely stand out. They have the upper hand. Employers may think graduates from good schools = good employees (though that is not always true!). If you graduate from LSE itself at London, you may be able to command even higher pay. Nevertheless, UOLIP is considered one of the best private university education in Singapore (and perhaps the world for distance learning) already. The pay isn't that bad. There are UOLIP graduates that climbed quite high.

In wage negotiation, if you believe that the tendency of employer is to give lower pay than local university graduates, avoid giving a round number like $2,700 because that will increase your range of negotiation (perhaps $2,300 to $3,000) and you may be forced to the lower end instead of higher end. If you wish to prevent being forced to the lower end, say $2,650. It will minimise the range. This is a form of psychological error (you will learn about this if you took Elements of Social and Applied Psychology). It really does work. If you don't believe, try it on your friends. Give a random number and ask them the range they think of immediately after you say that number. You will notice that the more precise you are, the smaller the range. But please don't give weird numbers like $2,659.99. People will think you are weird!

In summary, please don't ask above local uni graduates unless you got very good honours or work experience to justify it. Cause if you ask too high, you will price yourself out and not be even considered or offered the job. Neither ask too low that employers may think you have something wrong that is why you ask for so low and may push down the wage further. Apply for jobs from various channels to increase your chances. All the best!

wow thanks for ur advice senior! i just gt a call to ask im if okay with less than $2.4
i say minimum 2.4 :/

The truth is very simple. Statistically speaking excluding rare outliers, SIM peeps have no chance of getting into IB/PB. Everyone who has minimal work experience in a bank knows that. All these threads exist because peeps are not willing to accept the simple hard cold truth.

You have thread after thread asking the same question again & again. Eventually because of the sheer number of posts, you will eventually get 1 or 2 about some supposed UOL grad who made it big. All the peeps then latch on to what they want to hear and keep their dreams of greatness in FNB alive.

At the end of the day, it's just average people fantasizing about joining the league of the top 1% and willing to sieze on any example, rumour or hearsay to support their world view. The really good SIM grads would have moved on and experimented with alternative ways to outperforming the IB/PBs.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

The truth is very simple. Statistically speaking excluding rare outliers, SIM peeps have no chance of getting into IB/PB. Everyone who has minimal work experience in a bank knows that. All these threads exist because peeps are not willing to accept the simple hard cold truth.

You have thread after thread asking the same question again & again. Eventually because of the sheer number of posts, you will eventually get 1 or 2 about some supposed UOL grad who made it big. All the peeps then latch on to what they want to hear and keep their dreams of greatness in FNB alive.

At the end of the day, it's just average people fantasizing about joining the league of the top 1% and willing to sieze on any example, rumour or hearsay to support their world view. The really good SIM grads would have moved on and experimented with alternative ways to outperforming the IB/PBs.

True, a friend of mine once worked in Ministry of Finance and asked about the prospect of UOL degree if he were to return to MoF after graduation. His boss told him that MoF do not recognize UOL as a degree and he will be on the diploma track. Such is reality.

It's actually really just Singapore.. If you don't mind expanding your job hunt overseas, then you may have better chance. I had extended my search to almost anywhere in the world. My sec sch friend pursuing his PhD in Oxford told me UOL is readily recognize in England. I believe it would be so too in countries outside of Singapore.

[jobhunter1234]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Not true with the extra credentials. It doesn't work as well as people think. Boils down to luck too.

I'm a UOL grad, passed my CFA level 1 during my student days, ranked in the top few percentile globally during my first attempt at Bloomberg Assessment test and I'm a Captain in a sports CCA in school, having won medals for school yearly. I've been sending out resume since yr 1 for internship, and have sent out in total 400+ resume since... Response rate... Abt 0.1%? And all are rejections. I asked many people to look through my resume and cover letter and the way i send my application for mistakes, everything seems fine. I even got one UOB HR lady to look through, she thought it was good, and even spend 30 minutes helping me edit my resume to find grammatical errors. but when I send my resume to them, not even an interview for internship in Ops. My friends still find it puzzling, I'm a super odd case.

I do read very widely, during my free time. I research extensively in the industry of my dreams.. hahaha.. I keep up to date with news and daily stats, spending extra money for WSJ, economist and FT sub (Which I read religiously, but ran out of cash for economist sub renewal). But most importantly if no one wants to give you even an interview, all that extra edge you build is nothing but personal interest and empty dreams.

2 Months back, I got selected by school for an interview before they help me send my resume out for an internship. They were very impressed by me during the interview and I was the best candidate they seen for the job yet. (That was the only relevant industry interview granted to me during my 3 years in UOL) They asked me to write up extra stuff so they can help me send in to the firm. I'm very touched that the school was willing to help, alas in the end, the firm did not give me an interview to prove myself. I'm very confident in interview, but if no one gives me the chance for an interview, then what? I've seen some of my friends with what you mention read subject guide only and score jobs I wanted and applied, and I'm not even given interview.

Sometimes i still feel down and regretted not studying to get into SMU BA, I'm only eligible to get into IS when i applied. The difference with employers' attitude between SMU and SIM UOL is extremely stark. I once sneaked into a certain firm's career talk in SMU.. It's like they are begging SMU students to join them and even got the CFO down. Meanwhile, my friend in SIM investment club told me some banks think SIM is a waste of their time for career talk when they called.

Anyway.. It's all about luck. I've just finished my final paper and looking for job FT. I'm expecting to graduate with minimum 2:1 and very very close to 1st... keeping my fingers crossed. Still no luck with my hunt. Anw, I hope all you guys job hunting all the best! For UOL students, yes, I've heard and seen good stuff happened to people from UOL. It's just luck sometimes.. Don't give up!

Hi. All the best to your job hunt. Don't be so sad and I can tell you that SMU students nowadays are also having a hard time finding jobs. It could be the case that SIM grads are having difficulties even being granted a chance for an interview, however, it is not easy for SMU grads either. SMU grads with a mere cum laude are also facing the same problem as you are...just hope for the best. Perhaps you can try public sector as well.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

The truth is very simple. Statistically speaking excluding rare outliers, SIM peeps have no chance of getting into IB/PB. Everyone who has minimal work experience in a bank knows that. All these threads exist because peeps are not willing to accept the simple hard cold truth.

You have thread after thread asking the same question again & again. Eventually because of the sheer number of posts, you will eventually get 1 or 2 about some supposed UOL grad who made it big. All the peeps then latch on to what they want to hear and keep their dreams of greatness in FNB alive.

At the end of the day, it's just average people fantasizing about joining the league of the top 1% and willing to sieze on any example, rumour or hearsay to support their world view. The really good SIM grads would have moved on and experimented with alternative ways to outperforming the IB/PBs.

Haha youngsters having some unrealistic dreams is not necessary a bad thing. The important thing is to move on when you realise the reality. I believe majority of pte univeristy grads do move on with life after that.

My finance colleague is from pte u also. Always bitching about how the company sux (we are mid sized local company) and announcing he will resign the moment he get a "good banking job". Its been nearly 3 years since he join and until now still not 1 offer from any bank. But I think he is minority, most pte u grads (inc. me) not like that.

Erm, to all the UOL students or pte university students, unless you have very strong banking experience and performed very well (1st class) in UOL or have relatives holding top positions, forget about achieving high pay in banks. Recruiters for MA programmes from all banks will spit on our resume when they see UOL, and temporary jobs we have done during holidays. we have to face the fact that the people getting these jobs are in a different league. lower your expectations because that is no big deal in having a UOL degree.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Erm, to all the UOL students or pte university students, unless you have very strong banking experience and performed very well (1st class) in UOL or have relatives holding top positions, forget about achieving high pay in banks. Recruiters for MA programmes from all banks will spit on our resume when they see UOL, and temporary jobs we have done during holidays. we have to face the fact that the people getting these jobs are in a different league. lower your expectations because that is no big deal in having a UOL degree.

Agree on need for connections, but disagree on 1st class honors in UOL. UOL FC honors is ranked lower than even a 2nd upper from local uni, so as far as landing a fat package in bank, it is practically uselss.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Agree on need for connections, but disagree on 1st class honors in UOL. UOL FC honors is ranked lower than even a 2nd upper from local uni, so as far as landing a fat package in bank, it is practically uselss.

How come some first class in uol can go for masters in local uni?

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Not true with the extra credentials. It doesn't work as well as people think. Boils down to luck too.

I'm a UOL grad, passed my CFA level 1 during my student days, ranked in the top few percentile globally during my first attempt at Bloomberg Assessment test and I'm a Captain in a sports CCA in school, having won medals for school yearly. I've been sending out resume since yr 1 for internship, and have sent out in total 400+ resume since... Response rate... Abt 0.1%? And all are rejections. I asked many people to look through my resume and cover letter and the way i send my application for mistakes, everything seems fine. I even got one UOB HR lady to look through, she thought it was good, and even spend 30 minutes helping me edit my resume to find grammatical errors. but when I send my resume to them, not even an interview for internship in Ops. My friends still find it puzzling, I'm a super odd case.

I do read very widely, during my free time. I research extensively in the industry of my dreams.. hahaha.. I keep up to date with news and daily stats, spending extra money for WSJ, economist and FT sub (Which I read religiously, but ran out of cash for economist sub renewal). But most importantly if no one wants to give you even an interview, all that extra edge you build is nothing but personal interest and empty dreams.

2 Months back, I got selected by school for an interview before they help me send my resume out for an internship. They were very impressed by me during the interview and I was the best candidate they seen for the job yet. (That was the only relevant industry interview granted to me during my 3 years in UOL) They asked me to write up extra stuff so they can help me send in to the firm. I'm very touched that the school was willing to help, alas in the end, the firm did not give me an interview to prove myself. I'm very confident in interview, but if no one gives me the chance for an interview, then what? I've seen some of my friends with what you mention read subject guide only and score jobs I wanted and applied, and I'm not even given interview.

Sometimes i still feel down and regretted not studying to get into SMU BA, I'm only eligible to get into IS when i applied. The difference with employers' attitude between SMU and SIM UOL is extremely stark. I once sneaked into a certain firm's career talk in SMU.. It's like they are begging SMU students to join them and even got the CFO down. Meanwhile, my friend in SIM investment club told me some banks think SIM is a waste of their time for career talk when they called.

Anyway.. It's all about luck. I've just finished my final paper and looking for job FT. I'm expecting to graduate with minimum 2:1 and very very close to 1st... keeping my fingers crossed. Still no luck with my hunt. Anw, I hope all you guys job hunting all the best! For UOL students, yes, I've heard and seen good stuff happened to people from UOL. It's just luck sometimes.. Don't give up!

from E&F here. No cca and nothing. Was doing part time jobs in year 1 and 2 while studying full time in SIM. Gotten my CFA level 1-2 at the end of my year 2 in SIM. Already secured my FCH in year 2 so year 3 was pretty relaxing for me. Got a ops role in UOB back office in tampines and converted to part time studies in my final year. Things were pretty hectic but i still could manage it. Left my job in feb to take a break and to focus on my exams (to see whether i could get a gold award ) Started my job hunt around in april, went to numerous interviews for mid office positions. Mainly analyst roles (risk mgt / fx settlements etc) with SCB, Morgan stanley, OCBC, DBS. Sent out about 40resumes to many banks and FI , hit rate is about 40% ? Already in my 2nd interview with morgan stanley and SCB, still waiting for the responses frm ocbc and DBS after my 1st interview with them. But at the same time im looking at other sectors such as commodities trading houses ( mainly physical trading but also bit on paper trading, either agri or energy)

My point is - every interview i went (errr.. about 10 or so? ), the interviewers were pretty impressed on how i managed to maintain my grades in such hectic schedules daily. Interviewers dont care whether you're a president of a SIM school club. Quoting from 1 of the interviewer i had , she said SIM-UOL is already a 3rd tier degree, without coursework, sem assessments, semester reviews by prof, etc etc. If one still couldn't get a FCH for it then it says a lot about your capability. Pretty harsh i say, but these are hard truths. Of coz ppl may argue academic ability doesn't determine one's ability.. well you dont tell me.. go tell it to most of the recruiters in banks.... 1 of my fnd was recommending me to go into stat boards and start from a "farmer" role then applying for post-grad sponsorship...
To all jobseekers , dont lose hope but pls open your eyes wide and see what's the reality out there. A FCH in UOL is as good as a average pass degree from local U...no big deal about it