SIM-UOL fresh grad starting pay

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Hi, I strongly agree to this, Lets just face it, I have so many SIM Fresh Grads doing UOL and RMIT degrees, (I'm also one) who still havent found a proper job in the bank, and wont be able to get a job in Govt sector. (I've applied for so many)

A few interviews I have been to, the HR manager sometimes use local uni to compare with me, showing how elitist they are. We will always be on a lower level when applying for jobs. So tell me what can i do? Accept a low paying job?

I think accepting a pay of $300-400 lower might not be a bad idea to gain some experience.

You gotta realize something. The local unis cohort are huge, if you add up all 3 of them, you are facing 15,000 local uni graduates. If 10% gets a first class, there are 1500 local uni graduates with 1st class honors.

If you think you should have a higher pay, you need to justify yourself. I am competent and smart, currently on my way to a first class honor. Completed a 6 months IA with a big MNC, internship during vacation and awards from the university. I have not found a job as well.

It is naive to think that all degrees are equal and people will judge you that way. The fact is that you are showing a DL first class/2nd upper but if you were to study in a local uni, you probably wouldn't even have a 3rd class. The kind of environment is totally different.

Abortion together with Karma

Because we live in a world where there are implications for our actions and we also have a justice system, Some women feel great guilt after having an abortion.

Even though abortion solved one problem it created many other problems. For a lot of women getting out of an unwanted pregnancy for whatever reason goes against their moral code. But for a short period of time it's easy to override how you feel about it because guilt isn't the pressing issue, Time is critical. Dealing with an unwanted pregnancy and the manipulation take priority.

And because on a difficult level guilt deserves punishment, Or some kind of levelling the score, Many women think that bad things will happen to them now within their chose to have an abortion.

regardless of we tell ourselves to twist the reasons around, Our emotions always take priority over how much of energy we have focused on an issue. Its like your head might be in high school but your heartaches are like in kindergarten.

Its unrealistic to carry on like a bad child waiting to be punished, But we do as well.

God just isn't a vengeful God, And until we make peace with ourselves and see that having an abortion is not a black and white issue, There are a lot of issues in between that fitflop sale can help us to see that there's a lot factors that push us to feel that its only a question of pro life or pro choice.

The fact that it's still a very controversial subject and there's a wall of silence for many women who have had an abortion and a degree of shame as well with the silence. It's still not an open area of grief we share in society.

I teach we have a contract with that other Soul to do this dance of abortion, Either to attempt karma, to sit and learn lessons, But there is certainly no way that you will be punished by God for choosing this option which was not chosen lightly.

Forgiving yourself and making your own peace is the key to the healing process because until you do, A part of you'll always be expecting to suffer in some way because of your decision.

Originally Posted by AStar

not true. so many of my seniors(~15) i know are in CS ; i am sure there is plenty more whom i dont know are in cs..

Can share which ministries and stat boards are they in?

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Hi, I strongly disagree with you, I am willing to slog it out for a few years or more, provided the pay is reasonable. But there is no "proper" job for me in the banks except telemarketing and branch sales, as of today (23/3/2013). I am willing to gain experience and in fact I dont want to be a manager when i'm not ready.

I tried to apply for a position of auto loans officer, says their requirements is only O/N levels and above. (because I cant find any other openings.. so i sent that application) And today in my email, they rejected me, with no interview. I dont know the reason, I have a UOL degree, I am willing to start at a lower position, even a lower (but reasonable pay).

So can anyone tell me, am i not being humble enough? Can the banks fire the FT and let me work in their position? I dont mind getting their 1800 - 2000SGD

sorry to hear your story. the banking industry as a whole is depressed now and u don't see many jobs out there even for more experienced people. how about considering other industries? any particular reason that it has to be banking if you are even willing to take such a low salary?

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Hi,

I hope that you have the decency not to bring in sales jobs here. You are distorting the reality. Even for sales, don't expect to get anything much in the first year. What 4.6k?

And as SIM grad, in stat board and government, 3.2k to 3.8k is for local uni grads with honors. We should be contented with just 2.7k since we study lesser and we take lesser years as they rationalise it. (Please, we all know how fking little we study compared to local uni who knows almost everything)

As to UOL grads, there's an oversaturation of us in the industry. For downtown jobs like banking, better pray your dad is banker or you are super pretty as a lady. There are only that few banking jobs in market. Better get a sense of reality.

Honestly, i'd rate the pay for SIM undergrad as 2.2k to 2.7k for fixed salary. Don't come and bring in sales.

your salary range should be correct.

but on how "fkking little we study compared to local uni who knows almost everything" ?

can substantiate this claim? or are you one of those who study from the subject guides only and never even touch the further/essential reading recommended from that guide?

No offense to most uol grads here.

But why are u guys so adamant in getting into the banking and finance industry? If you guys are thinking about getting into IBD, go take a look at linkedin at all the summer analysts from undergrad/ masters programs. Take a look at their credentials, then ask yourself what do you have in common with them. Other than which uni they came from, look at what else they have. Before someone tell me that they knew of a UOL grad who had made it into IBD, that is probably like 1% from the rest of the pool of "elites". And those 1% "lucky" UOL chaps either have some uber ninja networking skills or had CFA equivalent certs and etc. Things might be a little different but i hope you guys know what i'm trying to say here.

So if it's not IBD that you're aiming for, then what? middle office? risk mgt department? Or derivatives trading? compliance? back office ops? You have NTU,NUS,SMU,all the private Us and ppl who are thinking of making a career switch competing with you. I have a HR friend in 1 of the local big banks. She told me that they picked a NTU physics graduate with no experience over a FCH BNF UOL grad for a position in corporate finance team. U see, even fresh grads from other non-finance related faculty are competing with you guys.

Don't let the banking craze cloud your judgement. Open your eyes and look around. Read more news and talk to friends in other industries. I have UOL friends working in SGX, finance dept in some of the MNCs. I even know 1 chap who was doing admin/ops in a big agri trading house specialising in oil seeds, grain etc. Some networking here and there and slogged through countless of OTs, the firm finally bumped him up to be a full time trader.
But if you're still dead-fixed on heading into the BNF industry, then i wish you good luck. Persevere on, moderate your ambitions and be mindful of your surrounding and you will go far.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

No offense to most uol grads here.

But why are u guys so adamant in getting into the banking and finance industry? If you guys are thinking about getting into IBD, go take a look at linkedin at all the summer analysts from undergrad/ masters programs. Take a look at their credentials, then ask yourself what do you have in common with them. Other than which uni they came from, look at what else they have. Before someone tell me that they knew of a UOL grad who had made it into IBD, that is probably like 1% from the rest of the pool of "elites". And those 1% "lucky" UOL chaps either have some uber ninja networking skills or had CFA equivalent certs and etc. Things might be a little different but i hope you guys know what i'm trying to say here.

So if it's not IBD that you're aiming for, then what? middle office? risk mgt department? Or derivatives trading? compliance? back office ops? You have NTU,NUS,SMU,all the private Us and ppl who are thinking of making a career switch competing with you. I have a HR friend in 1 of the local big banks. She told me that they picked a NTU physics graduate with no experience over a FCH BNF UOL grad for a position in corporate finance team. U see, even fresh grads from other non-finance related faculty are competing with you guys.

Don't let the banking craze cloud your judgement. Open your eyes and look around. Read more news and talk to friends in other industries. I have UOL friends working in SGX, finance dept in some of the MNCs. I even know 1 chap who was doing admin/ops in a big agri trading house specialising in oil seeds, grain etc. Some networking here and there and slogged through countless of OTs, the firm finally bumped him up to be a full time trader.
But if you're still dead-fixed on heading into the BNF industry, then i wish you good luck. Persevere on, moderate your ambitions and be mindful of your surrounding and you will go far.

Also no offence to UOL or pte degree grads. As i am from UOL also.

IMO, most want to go BNF because of prestige and and they know can make more money.

but very little pte degree grads i come across actually read widely and make sense of what they learn. thats the key point.

of course there are local grads who are similar, but on average, i'll say most UOL (especially) students just read the subject guide, spot past year questions, and at most, sparingly read the text. an education has got to be more than that.

I was from UOL too and hahaha I read the subject guide and just abit of the 'essential reading'... comparatively my friends in NUS / NTU really studied alot more, with projects etc compared to the UOL program lol..

But ya nowadays its v hard to find a banking job as a fresh grad.. my colleague's friend is a SMU dean list grad and still looking for a job !

Even for experienced hires there are so many pple applying for limited positions. Its an employers' market now.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I was from UOL too and hahaha I read the subject guide and just abit of the 'essential reading'... comparatively my friends in NUS / NTU really studied alot more, with projects etc compared to the UOL program lol..

But ya nowadays its v hard to find a banking job as a fresh grad.. my colleague's friend is a SMU dean list grad and still looking for a job !

Even for experienced hires there are so many pple applying for limited positions. Its an employers' market now.

That's why local grads study more isn't it?

For pte degrees like UOL, (forget abt RMIT) how much you learn depends on how far you want to take it.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I think accepting a pay of $300-400 lower might not be a bad idea to gain some experience.

You gotta realize something. The local unis cohort are huge, if you add up all 3 of them, you are facing 15,000 local uni graduates. If 10% gets a first class, there are 1500 local uni graduates with 1st class honors.

If you think you should have a higher pay, you need to justify yourself. I am competent and smart, currently on my way to a first class honor. Completed a 6 months IA with a big MNC, internship during vacation and awards from the university. I have not found a job as well.

It is naive to think that all degrees are equal and people will judge you that way. The fact is that you are showing a DL first class/2nd upper but if you were to study in a local uni, you probably wouldn't even have a 3rd class. The kind of environment is totally different.

Hi, sorry but i dont think I should have a higher pay, and of course i'm not naive to think all degrees are equal haha, and certainly what you say is/may be very true about not even have achieved a 3rd class if we're in a local uni.

Yes, you are very right, and i would gladly accept $500 less than a uni grad.
My point is, many HR managers in Govt sector and other companies have an elitist mindset, and i agree to the previous comment prior to my comment (about elitism). So if so many companies want a local uni 1st class, where do we get jobs?

Just to share my exp abit more: Being a 1st class in local uni doesnt mean one can get the job done, the reason why I got the interview with the HR manager was because he hired 2 1st/2nd class local uni grad, who couldnt manage the job and left after 2 months.