SIM-UOL fresh grad starting pay

It seems like this debate is never ending!

I believe this is just the typical "Singapore" culture, whereby "brand" recognition plays an important role. Honestly there never was a need to differentiate between graduates of local Uni (those 3) and graduates of others (i.e. SIM and other Long-Dist Uni).

If we want to talk about outliers, we can even find those without a degree holding top management positions in global MNCs, earning big bucks annually! How do you explain that? At the end of the day, we are all just trying to survive in Singapore. If having a piece of paper helps in landing that dream job, why not? But please don't expect that piece of paper (regardless from where) to be the golden ticket to Willy Wonka's Chocolate Factory. Life ain't a fantasy, at least not for the majority.

This thread started off with someone who just wanted to know what to expect upon graduating from SIM-UOL. Lets just keep it at that, to provide accurate information where possible, to help people know what is the realistic salary to expect/negotiate for their first job. Didn't we all went through the same issue, regardless where we are from? In this troubling time, with many foreigners fighting to work in Singapore, staying united as one is more important than petty dispute amongst ourselves.

Lastly, as with all forums, please take information here with a pinch of salt, for your own internal reference.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

It seems like this debate is never ending!

I believe this is just the typical "Singapore" culture, whereby "brand" recognition plays an important role. Honestly there never was a need to differentiate between graduates of local Uni (those 3) and graduates of others (i.e. SIM and other Long-Dist Uni).

Market reality is reality. Blaming Singapore culture, companies only recognize brand, saying by right should not differentiate etc. is senseless talk.

The market is the market. It does not care what you & I think "should" be the correct way.

yes, its all about branding.

in life, thats all its about isnt it? thats the reason why people can pay $$ for a piece of paper from sim, even with the knowledge that it carries no value.

people from sims are more brand conscious than others - precisely why they chose to go to sim.

if i tell you a wallet from J leather goods is the same quality as a Bottega, and the same price, how many would choose the unknown brand over the Bottega?

Originally Posted by Unregistered

If we want to talk about outliers, we can even find those without a degree holding top management positions in global MNCs, earning big bucks annually! How do you explain that?

That's an illusion.

Ppl without degree can only hold top management positions in SMEs.

Keep dreaming.

Sinkie pwn sinkie. That's what's all are good at.
Continue at it while degree mills occupy most of your high paying jobs.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

That's an illusion.

Ppl without degree can only hold top management positions in SMEs.

Keep dreaming.

That's not true. One of the reasons why people without degree can hold top management positions in MNCs is due to the fact that:

1) Singapore was a developing country then, so there aren't alot of graduates
2) Climb up due to sheer experience and network across the industry

Now tell me. If you are a boss of a big company, would you rather have someone with just a paper to show, or someone that has tonnes of experience AND network across the industry?

Of course its pretty hard nowadays, seeing as it is so easy to get a degree now. But back then, it wasn't the norm.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

That's not true. One of the reasons why people without degree can hold top management positions in MNCs is due to the fact that:

1) Singapore was a developing country then, so there aren't alot of graduates
2) Climb up due to sheer experience and network across the industry

Now tell me. If you are a boss of a big company, would you rather have someone with just a paper to show, or someone that has tonnes of experience AND network across the industry?

This is all good in theory, but could you cite actual linkedin examples of non degree holders who are holding top management positions in prominent MNCs?

And I mean real proper MNCs like S&P 500 or FTSE 100 types, not companies setup by your local towkay with a few offices outside of Singapore. And by top management I assume we are talking about real c-suite execs, not some junior manager with inflated director/vp title.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

This is all good in theory, but could you cite actual linkedin examples of non degree holders who are holding top management positions in prominent MNCs?

And I mean real proper MNCs like S&P 500 or FTSE 100 types, not companies setup by your local towkay with a few offices outside of Singapore. And by top management I assume we are talking about real c-suite execs, not some junior manager with inflated director/vp title.

ok who? pls share

Originally Posted by Unregistered

This is all good in theory, but could you cite actual linkedin examples of non degree holders who are holding top management positions in prominent MNCs?

And I mean real proper MNCs like S&P 500 or FTSE 100 types, not companies setup by your local towkay with a few offices outside of Singapore. And by top management I assume we are talking about real c-suite execs, not some junior manager with inflated director/vp title.

Sigh. Ignorant people. Whateva happen to Bill Gates, Mark Zukerberg, Mark Cuban, and Michael Dell?

No wonder we are all losing out to foreigners in our fight for jobs. No zeal, no passion, no risk for appetite, and go-by-the-book. SOP for everything, unable to think beyond the norm, unable to manage change. Rigid mindset.

I reiterate, these were all in the past whereby it was easier to succeed and climb up. Let me stress again that such a phenomenon would be rare today. But not impossible.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Sigh. Ignorant people. Whateva happen to Bill Gates, Mark Zukerberg, Mark Cuban, and Michael Dell?

No wonder we are all losing out to foreigners in our fight for jobs. No zeal, no passion, no risk for appetite, and go-by-the-book. SOP for everything, unable to think beyond the norm, unable to manage change. Rigid mindset.

I reiterate, these were all in the past whereby it was easier to succeed and climb up. Let me stress again that such a phenomenon would be rare today. But not impossible.

Please, not the same old tired arguments about maverick entrepreneurs again.

To recap, your claim earlier was that big mncs will hire/promote someone without a degree to a top management position as long as he is more experienced or has good network. My challenge to you was if it were really that common, anyone could have easily found a number of linkedin profiles to prove the point. Instead of furnishing evidence to advance the debate, you went into yet another round of bantless ranting against the so called Singaporean mentality.

Let me reiterate again – show us evidence of the linkedin profiles exhibiting the following traits you claim earlier:

1) Occupies a top management position in a prominent MNC
2) Education level below degree
3) Promoted / hired because of experience and network

Where is the evidence?

For e.g. I work in Caterpillar. The top management team in my company can be found here: ://.caterpillar.com/en/company/governance/officers.html None of them are lowly educated, in fact some of them are holding prominent positions in academia affiliated networks and organizations. All I need is for you to come up with proper evidence to back up your claims, not polemics or rhetorical questions.