Working in a bank

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Dear Old Analyst,

Not to offend you but if you were referring to Mr HWS then I think u're giving the wrong advice. He cant afford to start in MO at 37, nor can he afford to wait another 15 years before making analyst (I doubt it, since 99.99% of the hires are 18-25, most likely an associate). Being from a top-tier school he can jolly well waltz into any BB he wants providing his networks are strong and his basics are not lacking. There would be absolutely no reason for him to work in equities research. The $ he makes there is 'Mrs Goh' compared to what he can potentially earn if he lands up in FO.

And again, no offense intended, you're probably the few lucky ones who managed to xfer from MO to FO. for the others who do not have 15 years of relevant experience and who can scarcely afford the equivalent amount of time and patience, they should aim directly for FO, either at boutiques or at MMs. Even if they burn out within the 1st few years trying to get in or trying to survive, hey they're still young. There is no recourse if they fail to make analyst after 15 years of training and planning in MO/BO.

Also, I'm talking specifically about M&A. ECM/PWM is considered much less prestigious than M&A and they command less pay. Deals only apply to M&A and analysts dont care who votes for them as long as they are involved in as much closed deals as possible.

I mean seriously, I'd rather put 'Prepared precedent transaction and comparable multiple valuations for the US$1.2 bn sale of a 'public listed company' to a PE and was successfully used in raising asking price to 250% of its market share price' than 'Voted star analyst in 2010 by fund managers'. Seriously. I might be purposefully lacking about the star analyst part but seriously.

I wont be posting anymore as that is all I have to say. For aspiring bankers go and read the previous posts and draw up your game plan. Always remember that deal experience >>>>> brand names. Go for a boutique with solid deal experience instead of big names like Big4 CF who serve 0 purpose but to support the BBs (and exciting due diligence work of course).

If you look across the top rated analysts today, say in Asiamoney or Institutional Investor, how many started off in their early/mid 20's in investment banks. I know many of them and can only think of one chap. Most of the top analysts came in from the industry. These days, even if you are from Harvard, Yale, Princeton, its still very competitive to get into graduate programs at BB investment banks so you can't waltz in.

I assume you are talking about CF (M&A just being a small part of CF) being the most prestigous place to be. I don't agree. Most of the analysts there are quite invisible and its a real slog. I know, because I worked with them on deals. Deals happen because of the firm's reputation, distribution capability, quality of research etc rather than the skill of the CF analyst in putting together the pitchbook. I don't find that very satisfying at all even if there is a big paycheck. There is some skill in structuring deals, but quite frankly, I've met so many people that can structure well, its not exactly a unique skill. As a sellside analyst, it may be an intense job, but there are the fun parts... the long broker lunches, playing golf with corporates, winning in the polls etc. As a top ranked analyst, you are respected by corporates and your peers.

When you put 'Prepared precedent transaction and comparable multiple ....', how much was it really your work that secured the deal vs your firms reputation and other high level management manuvering? Very little I suspect. I was often dragged in during the beauty parade to convince the client that we have an analyst that can influence the stock price. When I put "Top ranked in internal polls by Capital, Fidelity and GIC", people would hire me because of my ability to get voted by the largest and most important fund managers in the world.

sorry noob question: what's CF?

Originally Posted by Unregistered

You must be really passionate about equities or extremely keen on making that bonus that's counted in years. 7am to midnight! My goodness. Life is not just about equities and making money. If you have children, do they still recognize you after all these years? Sorry I'm being blunt here, but the other guy is right in saying it's easier to build from scratch another Osim and Hyflux (in your equities research, have you ever analyzed how these founders made it?).

Haha, I used to interact with both Ron and Olivia and both are extremely driven personalities, far more so than me. I seriously doubt I would take the risks that they have taken. For every Ron Sim and every Olivia Lum, many many have failed. But for those like them who succeed, the rewards are hundreds of millions, rather than my modest (compared to them) net worth.

I'm not that passionate about equities, but coming from a poor background, I did dream about having a bungalow and a supercar. Fortunately I got there, semi-retired and managed to bond with the kids before they left the nest (helps to have children young!)

Originally Posted by Unregistered

sorry noob question: what's CF?

Corporate Finance - Mergers & Acquisitions, privatisations, refinancing, restructuring, raising capital both equity and debt, buy outs (e.g., private equity), advisory

Originally Posted by anoldanalyst

For every Ron Sim and every Olivia Lum, many many have failed. But for those like them who succeed, the rewards are hundreds of millions, rather than my modest (compared to them) net worth.

I think Oliva Lum used to sell her stuff on a motorcycle and Ron Sim used to sell fishball noodles.

Originally Posted by anoldanalyst

If you look across the top rated analysts today, say in Asiamoney or Institutional Investor, how many started off in their early/mid 20's in investment banks. I know many of them and can only think of one chap. Most of the top analysts came in from the industry. These days, even if you are from Harvard, Yale, Princeton, its still very competitive to get into graduate programs at BB investment banks so you can't waltz in.

Yes of course, but notice I said 'networks are strong and basics are not lacking' too.

Originally Posted by anoldanalyst

I assume you are talking about CF (M&A just being a small part of CF) being the most prestigous place to be. I don't agree. Most of the analysts there are quite invisible and its a real slog. I know, because I worked with them on deals. Deals happen because of the firm's reputation, distribution capability, quality of research etc rather than the skill of the CF analyst in putting together the pitchbook. I don't find that very satisfying at all even if there is a big paycheck. There is some skill in structuring deals, but quite frankly, I've met so many people that can structure well, its not exactly a unique skill. As a sellside analyst, it may be an intense job, but there are the fun parts... the long broker lunches, playing golf with corporates, winning in the polls etc. As a top ranked analyst, you are respected by corporates and your peers.

Yes, but rainmaking/career development does not happen in IBs. I will move on to my MBA in 2 years' time and thereafter to PE/HFs. The hours there are not as bad as in IB and 1st years at a top-ranked PE (carlyle, KKR, TPG) draw a pay comparable to 1st yr associates. My point is that experience in CF (TMT/M&A etc) is what PEs would look for during recruitment.

Originally Posted by anoldanalyst

When you put 'Prepared precedent transaction and comparable multiple ....', how much was it really your work that secured the deal vs your firms reputation and other high level management manuvering? Very little I suspect. I was often dragged in during the beauty parade to convince the client that we have an analyst that can influence the stock price. When I put "Top ranked in internal polls by Capital, Fidelity and GIC", people would hire me because of my ability to get voted by the largest and most important fund managers in the world.

Yes, it was all due to the rainmaking capabilities of the senior bankers. But This "'Prepared precedent transaction and comparable multiple ...." is what I'll be able to put in my resume after barely 1 yr of work. To be a top-ranked research analyst, i'll would probably need at least 5, and I would not stay that long just to get it. And as I said earlier, PEs do not hire 1st/2nd yr analysts who think they can make rain. They hire analysts who can churn out relatively acceptable (not accurate. figures usually given by your MD) pitchbooks and valuations in an inordinately short amount of time. Valuations in IB is more of an art rather than hard science.

Of course all of this assumes that young mr hws intends to follow the usual route into pe/hf through ib.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Go read through this entire thread. Lots of good insights and advice, but if you can't tell good from bad, good luck!

I like the posts with these timestamps:

03-03-2011, 04:55 PM

03-03-2011, 11:41 PM

I am not him, btw.

Sorry, came back a bit late.. just want to say thank you for reading my post

If one had been around for sometime, it will not be difficult to tell immediately the good posts from the bad.

The 03-03-2011, 04:55 PM and 03-03-2011, 11:41 PM posts are definitely the good posts made by someone who has seen the world, so are the posts by anoldanalyst.

Unfortunately, there is also a lot of smoke in this forum.

Hi to all banking gurus here,

I have 3 questions here, which I hope you guys could provide your invaluable insights...


1. What's the career prospect of a product controller?

2. What marketable skillsets would this role equip me with if I were to take up this job?

3. Would the work exp gained from this role put me in good stead if I were to apply for an equity research role later?


Thanks in advance!

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Hi to all banking gurus here,

I have 3 questions here, which I hope you guys could provide your invaluable insights...


1. What's the career prospect of a product controller?

2. What marketable skillsets would this role equip me with if I were to take up this job?

3. Would the work exp gained from this role put me in good stead if I were to apply for an equity research role later?


Thanks in advance!

1. PC = ppl who computes P&L for Traders.
2. U will know abt the market and how traders trade (if u are lucky)
3. Not much relation.

Cheers