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  #111 (permalink)  
Old 25-03-2011, 04:57 PM
anoldanalyst
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Someone suggested that you can be too old to start in equity research. I started in equity research when I was 37 and went on to be a top ranked regional analyst. In fact, the reason I was hired in the first place was the 15 years of industry knowlege that I had accumulated. Fund managers respected that background and it was key in my success. I acquired 100% of my finance ability on the job.

There are dozens upon dozens of young university/MBA graduates starting in bulge bracket research firms, yet there is an extreme shortage of senior analysts who can demand extraordinary pay. The reason for this shortage is that most newbies in equity research fail to succeed and wander off to other departments like corporate finance, ecm, sales, trading etc.

Why do newbie analysts fail? Its because 50% of the job is a marketing job. Its no longer sufficient to make calls and write the research. You have to personally deliver it to the market. The technical part is pretty much a given that you can master it, but what most analysts can't master is convincing fund managers to vote for them in internal and external polls.

If you are considering the front office in a bulge bracket investment bank, do start in equity research. Even if you fail as most do, it is good training for moving to other departments, particularly the discipline of getting in at 7am and leaving at midnight. Don't worry about your age, because they take in all sorts. If you enter as a mature analyst with deep industry experience, you have a much higher probability of making it compared to the 90% attrition rate of the management associates and interns.

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  #112 (permalink)  
Old 25-03-2011, 05:32 PM
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Originally Posted by anoldanalyst View Post
Someone suggested that you can be too old to start in equity research. I started in equity research when I was 37 and went on to be a top ranked regional analyst. In fact, the reason I was hired in the first place was the 15 years of industry knowlege that I had accumulated. Fund managers respected that background and it was key in my success. I acquired 100% of my finance ability on the job.

There are dozens upon dozens of young university/MBA graduates starting in bulge bracket research firms, yet there is an extreme shortage of senior analysts who can demand extraordinary pay. The reason for this shortage is that most newbies in equity research fail to succeed and wander off to other departments like corporate finance, ecm, sales, trading etc.

Why do newbie analysts fail? Its because 50% of the job is a marketing job. Its no longer sufficient to make calls and write the research. You have to personally deliver it to the market. The technical part is pretty much a given that you can master it, but what most analysts can't master is convincing fund managers to vote for them in internal and external polls.

If you are considering the front office in a bulge bracket investment bank, do start in equity research. Even if you fail as most do, it is good training for moving to other departments, particularly the discipline of getting in at 7am and leaving at midnight. Don't worry about your age, because they take in all sorts. If you enter as a mature analyst with deep industry experience, you have a much higher probability of making it compared to the 90% attrition rate of the management associates and interns.

You must be really passionate about equities or extremely keen on making that bonus that's counted in years. 7am to midnight! My goodness. Life is not just about equities and making money. If you have children, do they still recognize you after all these years? Sorry I'm being blunt here, but the other guy is right in saying it's easier to build from scratch another Osim and Hyflux (in your equities research, have you ever analyzed how these founders made it?).

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  #113 (permalink)  
Old 25-03-2011, 05:49 PM
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The lesson to be learned from these postings is that if you have sterling academic results in school, you should leverage on it as early as possible to get into medicine, dentistry or law. That will almost guarantee you a comfortable annual mid 6-figures income (at least) till retirement. Instead of trying to impress nobody, but yourself probably, going to top overseas universities taking courses like business and finance and then hoping to land an IB or MBB position, whereby the probability of success is much lower. The number of Singaporean partners in top investment banking and consulting firms can be counted with the fingers in the hands, whereas the number of million-dollar Singaporean law firm partners or doctors who overbill their patients can be counted with the legs of a millipede.

The other lesson, don't join the RSAF if your ambition is in banking. That will almost surely land your resume into the waste paper basket of an IB (unless you have a residential address like 2A Ridley Park).

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  #114 (permalink)  
Old 25-03-2011, 07:42 PM
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If I stay in 168 Dalvey Road, I won't give a damn to getting a job, whether it's in IB or surgery. Instead, investment bankers will be begging me to let them handle my business deals and top surgeons will be scheming to treat me for a few mio.
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  #115 (permalink)  
Old 25-03-2011, 07:42 PM
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The lesson to be learned from these postings is that if you have sterling academic results in school, you should leverage on it as early as possible to get into medicine, dentistry or law. That will almost guarantee you a comfortable annual mid 6-figures income (at least) till retirement. Instead of trying to impress nobody, but yourself probably, going to top overseas universities taking courses like business and finance and then hoping to land an IB or MBB position, whereby the probability of success is much lower. The number of Singaporean partners in top investment banking and consulting firms can be counted with the fingers in the hands, whereas the number of million-dollar Singaporean law firm partners or doctors who overbill their patients can be counted with the legs of a millipede.

The other lesson, don't join the RSAF if your ambition is in banking. That will almost surely land your resume into the waste paper basket of an IB (unless you have a residential address like 2A Ridley Park).
Such pessimism and belittlement (for reason of practicability you might argue) inadvertently contributes to the lack of ambition and the general want of drive among young Singaporeans today. Every civilisation needs dreamers for they are the visionaries of tomorrow.

No wonder we are always following others' lead instead of forging new grounds for ourselves.
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  #116 (permalink)  
Old 25-03-2011, 07:54 PM
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Such pessimism and belittlement (for reason of practicability you might argue) inadvertently contributes to the lack of ambition and the general want of drive among young Singaporeans today. Every civilisation needs dreamers for they are the visionaries of tomorrow.

No wonder we are always following others' lead instead of forging new grounds for ourselves.
Forging new grounds should be in starting business ventures and entrepreneurship.

Working for others is not forging new ground. Moreover, I personally feel that the finance sector is too bloated with too many overpaid people. But that's another discussion for another day.

The advice given here are all good advice. Maybe the RSAF guy should go ahead and update us all on his battle stories. I bet he doesn't even know how and where to start.

And when your son says he wants to be President of USA or King of Saudi Arabia, encourage him and tell him nothing is impossible. Keep trying and one day he'll achieve his dream.
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  #117 (permalink)  
Old 25-03-2011, 08:14 PM
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Originally Posted by anoldanalyst View Post
Someone suggested that you can be too old to start in equity research. I started in equity research when I was 37 and went on to be a top ranked regional analyst. In fact, the reason I was hired in the first place was the 15 years of industry knowlege that I had accumulated. Fund managers respected that background and it was key in my success. I acquired 100% of my finance ability on the job.

There are dozens upon dozens of young university/MBA graduates starting in bulge bracket research firms, yet there is an extreme shortage of senior analysts who can demand extraordinary pay. The reason for this shortage is that most newbies in equity research fail to succeed and wander off to other departments like corporate finance, ecm, sales, trading etc.

Why do newbie analysts fail? Its because 50% of the job is a marketing job. Its no longer sufficient to make calls and write the research. You have to personally deliver it to the market. The technical part is pretty much a given that you can master it, but what most analysts can't master is convincing fund managers to vote for them in internal and external polls.

If you are considering the front office in a bulge bracket investment bank, do start in equity research. Even if you fail as most do, it is good training for moving to other departments, particularly the discipline of getting in at 7am and leaving at midnight. Don't worry about your age, because they take in all sorts. If you enter as a mature analyst with deep industry experience, you have a much higher probability of making it compared to the 90% attrition rate of the management associates and interns.
Dear Old Analyst,

Not to offend you but if you were referring to Mr HWS then I think u're giving the wrong advice. He cant afford to start in MO at 37, nor can he afford to wait another 15 years before making analyst (I doubt it, since 99.99% of the hires are 18-25, most likely an associate). Being from a top-tier school he can jolly well waltz into any BB he wants providing his networks are strong and his basics are not lacking. There would be absolutely no reason for him to work in equities research. The $ he makes there is 'Mrs Goh' compared to what he can potentially earn if he lands up in FO.

And again, no offense intended, you're probably the few lucky ones who managed to xfer from MO to FO. for the others who do not have 15 years of relevant experience and who can scarcely afford the equivalent amount of time and patience, they should aim directly for FO, either at boutiques or at MMs. Even if they burn out within the 1st few years trying to get in or trying to survive, hey they're still young. There is no recourse if they fail to make analyst after 15 years of training and planning in MO/BO.

Also, I'm talking specifically about M&A. ECM/PWM is considered much less prestigious than M&A and they command less pay. Deals only apply to M&A and analysts dont care who votes for them as long as they are involved in as much closed deals as possible.

I mean seriously, I'd rather put 'Prepared precedent transaction and comparable multiple valuations for the US$1.2 bn sale of a 'public listed company' to a PE and was successfully used in raising asking price to 250% of its market share price' than 'Voted star analyst in 2010 by fund managers'. Seriously. I might be purposefully lacking about the star analyst part but seriously.

I wont be posting anymore as that is all I have to say. For aspiring bankers go and read the previous posts and draw up your game plan. Always remember that deal experience >>>>> brand names. Go for a boutique with solid deal experience instead of big names like Big4 CF who serve 0 purpose but to support the BBs (and exciting due diligence work of course).

Always work hard and study hard.
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  #118 (permalink)  
Old 25-03-2011, 08:29 PM
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Forging new grounds should be in starting business ventures and entrepreneurship.

Working for others is not forging new ground. Moreover, I personally feel that the finance sector is too bloated with too many overpaid people. But that's another discussion for another day.

The advice given here are all good advice. Maybe the RSAF guy should go ahead and update us all on his battle stories. I bet he doesn't even know how and where to start.

And when your son says he wants to be President of USA or King of Saudi Arabia, encourage him and tell him nothing is impossible. Keep trying and one day he'll achieve his dream.
I never said forging new grounds = entrepreneurship. Banking and Finance is steadily approaching the prestige levels of Medicine and Law and while I will give my son a shove towards Finance, I will not discourage him if he were to, say, major in Music or Art instead. I will not go into a lengthy debate on on rawl's distritutive justice (if you can see the link) and blah blah here but I want to emphasize that Social Darwinism operates at an op-pressingly high level here, and people who cant produce what society/government? wants end up holding the shorter end of the stick.

I still love the pap but they seriously need to wake up. would vote for opp only if their candidates actually sound like they know what they are talking about.

I digress. lets not talk about politics here.
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  #119 (permalink)  
Old 25-03-2011, 08:56 PM
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I hope Eric is able to take all the above into consideration and come to a decision about his career. We can only prod him vaguely in that direction but ultimately he must depend on himself to make the choices.
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  #120 (permalink)  
Old 25-03-2011, 09:05 PM
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Thanks for all the advices and help. At least I have an idea on where I can start now.
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